Jul 20, 2019, 3:27 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Quick answers to FAQ:
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep
Jul 10, 2019, 5:33 pm
#275
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 10,155
I don't have any imminent flights coming up as I generally don't fly in the UK summer months for various reasons. However and as a general point the old adage that a fair days work for a fair days work should be the case.
On the face of it an 11% pay rise is good but are there any strings attached which are sticking points? I know from a very long time in my previous career that the actual amount of a pay rise isn't always what it appears to be. I had a pay freeze for 3 years then 1% for 3 years (the period was 2010-2016) but my pension contributions went up 4% in that last 3 year period.
When you consider that a pay cut happened through tough financial and economic times then I think it's only fair when companies are doing well in their profits then that payback for loyalty is due. I hope there is a satisfactory outcome for all concerned and it doesn't come to an actual strike as such, fingers crossed.
On the face of it an 11% pay rise is good but are there any strings attached which are sticking points? I know from a very long time in my previous career that the actual amount of a pay rise isn't always what it appears to be. I had a pay freeze for 3 years then 1% for 3 years (the period was 2010-2016) but my pension contributions went up 4% in that last 3 year period.
When you consider that a pay cut happened through tough financial and economic times then I think it's only fair when companies are doing well in their profits then that payback for loyalty is due. I hope there is a satisfactory outcome for all concerned and it doesn't come to an actual strike as such, fingers crossed.
Jul 10, 2019, 7:47 pm
#276
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: BA bronze, Aeroplan peon
Posts: 4,746
Jul 11, 2019, 2:28 am
#277
Join Date: Oct 2013
Programs: BA Gold, VS Gold, IHG Platinum, Hilton Gold, Hertz Presidents Circle.
Posts: 1,448
Browsing the Sun in the MAN lounge this morning (it was on the table already, lol) and they had a small article suggesting cabin crew had accepted the deal on offer but BALPA has not.
If, big if as its the Sun, this is true does that weaken BALPAs position?
If, big if as its the Sun, this is true does that weaken BALPAs position?
Jul 11, 2019, 2:33 am
#278
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
Not one bit. BA can do nothing without the pilots.
Jul 11, 2019, 3:07 am
#279
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 587
CC haven’t accepted the deal anyway. Unite has recommended we do, though MFU have rejected it. I believe BASSA have recommended acceptance but not 100% sure.
Jul 11, 2019, 5:21 am
#280
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Programs: Tufty Club (Gold), BAGA Gymnastics level 4, 440yds swimming certificate
Posts: 2,533
Doesn't the CC deal have some sort of link to making changes to business practises to try and improve performance? I cant see WW agreeing to lots more cabin passes and additional on board services so soon after the removal of a crew member for long haul flights.
Also the 11% headline is a little misleading as its just a series of semi reasonable increases over a number of years?
Also the 11% headline is a little misleading as its just a series of semi reasonable increases over a number of years?
Jul 11, 2019, 6:25 am
#281
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London Town
Programs: BA Silver, AF Silver
Posts: 465
BA was privatised in 1987. Even when it was nationalised it was still run on commercial lines. I doubt there are many current BA staff who were in post in 1987.
Still never let inaccuracies get in the way of a rant.
As to the 'mercy of their employer we have laws in the UK that prevent employers treating their staff as mere vassals to do their bidding and cast aside on whim.
Have you even read many of the posts in this and other threads about what BA staff did to help the airline through the financial issues following 9/11 and the recession later in the decade.?? If you did you wouldn't write such dross.
They took pay cuts - not just no pay rises they agreed to actual cuts in their income and other benefits (and a reduction in the quality of their lives) - to help the airline and BA promised they would be made whole when the airline returned to profitability. Well the airline is and consistently profitable and BA management have failed to make their staff 'whole'. No wonder the staff are angry.
They have my support
Still never let inaccuracies get in the way of a rant.
As to the 'mercy of their employer we have laws in the UK that prevent employers treating their staff as mere vassals to do their bidding and cast aside on whim.
Have you even read many of the posts in this and other threads about what BA staff did to help the airline through the financial issues following 9/11 and the recession later in the decade.?? If you did you wouldn't write such dross.
They took pay cuts - not just no pay rises they agreed to actual cuts in their income and other benefits (and a reduction in the quality of their lives) - to help the airline and BA promised they would be made whole when the airline returned to profitability. Well the airline is and consistently profitable and BA management have failed to make their staff 'whole'. No wonder the staff are angry.
They have my support
As for the pay cuts - big deal. Following the 2008 global crash, I had to take a pay cut - as did tens of thousands of others in the private sector. We took pay cuts, or people would have been laid off. It's as simple as that. Nothing special about airline employees doing the same.
The big difference is that the airline industry has been through massive disruption in the past 18 years. Not just 9/11 and the global recession, but the obsolescence of legacy airlines' business models following the rise of the LCC. As is always the case when an industry is disrupted, jobs are lost and the working patterns of those left will never be the same again. There's no 'act of benevolence' by the staff here, this is just what happens as economic models change and industrial landscapes alter. Working for an airline doesn't make you a special case, and nor have airline staff done anything that many of the rest of us have had to do at one time or another.
Jul 11, 2019, 6:57 am
#282
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,200
I'm well aware of when BA was privatised. And if you're trying to intimate that the way staff worked back then bears any resemblance to now, you're in la la land.
Like many previously nationalised workforces, it seems in some respects like BA staff and their unions are having trouble leaving the 70s behind
I never suggested that staff still think it's the 70's you did. Perhaps it's you that's in la la land.
Jul 11, 2019, 7:43 am
#283
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
I'm well aware of when BA was privatised. And if you're trying to intimate that the way staff worked back then bears any resemblance to now, you're in la la land.
As for the pay cuts - big deal. Following the 2008 global crash, I had to take a pay cut - as did tens of thousands of others in the private sector. We took pay cuts, or people would have been laid off. It's as simple as that. Nothing special about airline employees doing the same.
The big difference is that the airline industry has been through massive disruption in the past 18 years. Not just 9/11 and the global recession, but the obsolescence of legacy airlines' business models following the rise of the LCC. As is always the case when an industry is disrupted, jobs are lost and the working patterns of those left will never be the same again. There's no 'act of benevolence' by the staff here, this is just what happens as economic models change and industrial landscapes alter. Working for an airline doesn't make you a special case, and nor have airline staff done anything that many of the rest of us have had to do at one time or another.
As for the pay cuts - big deal. Following the 2008 global crash, I had to take a pay cut - as did tens of thousands of others in the private sector. We took pay cuts, or people would have been laid off. It's as simple as that. Nothing special about airline employees doing the same.
The big difference is that the airline industry has been through massive disruption in the past 18 years. Not just 9/11 and the global recession, but the obsolescence of legacy airlines' business models following the rise of the LCC. As is always the case when an industry is disrupted, jobs are lost and the working patterns of those left will never be the same again. There's no 'act of benevolence' by the staff here, this is just what happens as economic models change and industrial landscapes alter. Working for an airline doesn't make you a special case, and nor have airline staff done anything that many of the rest of us have had to do at one time or another.