12 hours in Y on 788. Avoid at all costs?
Jun 9, 2019, 4:13 am
#76
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,237
Presumably though your uncle didn't pay for the privilege of being deported?
Was the work camp experience described as having "delicious meals and full bar service included" and did his freight car promise "Your seat is ergonomically designed and comes with an adjustable headrest, lumbar support and recline. Your World Traveller experience also includes a few extra features to help make the journey as enjoyable as possible, including a comfy cushion and blanket"
Somehow I doubt being deported is described as having "extra features to help make the journey as enjoyable as possible", unlike WT on BA.
Was the work camp experience described as having "delicious meals and full bar service included" and did his freight car promise "Your seat is ergonomically designed and comes with an adjustable headrest, lumbar support and recline. Your World Traveller experience also includes a few extra features to help make the journey as enjoyable as possible, including a comfy cushion and blanket"
Somehow I doubt being deported is described as having "extra features to help make the journey as enjoyable as possible", unlike WT on BA.
1) My uncle didn't pay for the pleasure hence he had no right of complaining, which is fairly unjust to the poor chap considering that his only fault was to look older than 16 to a bunch of Nazi soldiers
2) You really believe every single piece of marketing garbage in the world, in which case I warmly recommend you never to use TfL (slogan: "Keeping London Moving") on most days including today (Circle line closed, District, DLR, Hamm&City, Rail & Overground partially closed, disruption on trams).
I'll admit, I've a bee in my bonnet with hyperbole.
Jun 9, 2019, 4:43 am
#77
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,754
I feel it’s somewhat crass to use Nazi transportation of prisoners as some sort of illustration as to why we should put into perspective the ‘first world problems’ of Y travel on a 788.
As someone whose ancestors were murdered by Nazis and who has visited Auschwitz to try and get a closer experience of what these poor millions went thru, I think it’s a cheap and tasteless analogy.
As someone whose ancestors were murdered by Nazis and who has visited Auschwitz to try and get a closer experience of what these poor millions went thru, I think it’s a cheap and tasteless analogy.
Jun 9, 2019, 5:04 am
#78
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,237
I feel it’s somewhat crass to use Nazi transportation of prisoners as some sort of illustration as to why we should put into perspective the ‘first world problems’ of Y travel on a 788.
As someone whose ancestors were murdered by Nazis and who has visited Auschwitz to try and get a closer experience of what these poor millions went thru, I think it’s a cheap and tasteless analogy.
As someone whose ancestors were murdered by Nazis and who has visited Auschwitz to try and get a closer experience of what these poor millions went thru, I think it’s a cheap and tasteless analogy.
There used to be a time when the 787-8 seats were indeed marginally narrower than the 787-9's, but now I believe this has been rectified (certainly on the newer tails). I say that because the seat have the same "asset number" whilst, for instance, the all-white Club seat on a 77W isn't the same as a grey-and-white seat on a 787.
Having said that, the 787 seat isn't in itself a pleasant experience. I've now flown Y on 787s on BA, both 788 and 789, LATAM and JAL. JAL is of course the shining light with its 2-4-2 arrangement. BA and LATAM were pretty similar, i.e. not great. In all honesty it's a matter of perception; I didn't mind neither flight. My worst flights in terms of crampedness, if that's a word, were on Emirates (10-abreast 77W) and Uzbekistan Airways with their 767 that can carry almost 300 people.
Having said that I remember what my uncle, who'd been deported to a work camp in Poland, once told me: "At least you didn't spend 3 days standing in a freight car together with a hundred other people". He had a habit of putting even my crappiest flight into perspective.
Having said that, the 787 seat isn't in itself a pleasant experience. I've now flown Y on 787s on BA, both 788 and 789, LATAM and JAL. JAL is of course the shining light with its 2-4-2 arrangement. BA and LATAM were pretty similar, i.e. not great. In all honesty it's a matter of perception; I didn't mind neither flight. My worst flights in terms of crampedness, if that's a word, were on Emirates (10-abreast 77W) and Uzbekistan Airways with their 767 that can carry almost 300 people.
Having said that I remember what my uncle, who'd been deported to a work camp in Poland, once told me: "At least you didn't spend 3 days standing in a freight car together with a hundred other people". He had a habit of putting even my crappiest flight into perspective.
Jun 9, 2019, 5:22 am
#79
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,754
I still think the comparison is in poor taste. But as you point out, it’s your uncle who said it, not you. .
Jun 9, 2019, 5:34 am
#80
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,668
I agree. Nor does it directly refer to any prior oppressive regime of 80 or so years ago.
Jun 9, 2019, 8:12 am
#81
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: UK. BAEC AAdvantage
Programs: Mucci Des Oeufs Brouilles et des Canards
Posts: 3,671
I honestly fail to see your point. Or, rather, I'm seeing two ways of understanding it.
1) My uncle didn't pay for the pleasure hence he had no right of complaining, which is fairly unjust to the poor chap considering that his only fault was to look older than 16 to a bunch of Nazi soldiers
2) You really believe every single piece of marketing garbage in the world, in which case I warmly recommend you never to use TfL (slogan: "Keeping London Moving") on most days including today (Circle line closed, District, DLR, Hamm&City, Rail & Overground partially closed, disruption on trams).
I'll admit, I've a bee in my bonnet with hyperbole.
1) My uncle didn't pay for the pleasure hence he had no right of complaining, which is fairly unjust to the poor chap considering that his only fault was to look older than 16 to a bunch of Nazi soldiers
2) You really believe every single piece of marketing garbage in the world, in which case I warmly recommend you never to use TfL (slogan: "Keeping London Moving") on most days including today (Circle line closed, District, DLR, Hamm&City, Rail & Overground partially closed, disruption on trams).
I'll admit, I've a bee in my bonnet with hyperbole.
Today airlines are making Y class travel less enjoyable by taking away space and service. I, like you, hate hyperbole, particularly when you can cut through the b/s provided by marketing/PR firms. Look at Etihad now charging for snacks and drinks outside of the meal service. And the smaller meals offered by removing the salad and bread (so that on a really long haul you will go hungry - but not starve of course because only those that have gone through some sort of horrific wartime experience have ever truly starved). You might not like the salad, but on the airlines I've flown, the salads have been a welcome side to the main meal. Airlines are seeing Y class passengers as something to monitise to justify low headline prices (sometimes, I never managed to get the lowest price as I rarely book a year out). And squeezing us onto narrow planes and taking away space in a supposed trade off for something else is usually a con.
Jun 9, 2019, 8:45 am
#83
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,237
By applying your logic, you never want or expect any piece of machinery to ever need ANY sort repair and maintenance? You'd be happy to board a tube that's never had any maintenance and be stuck in a tunnel for 3 days? At least then you could relive part of what your uncle went through - providing you were standing. And you'd be happy to board a plane, and let's make it 787 in Y to keep on topic, that's never had any maintenance on it? Let's make every woman giving birth not have access to any pain relieving drugs because your ancestors didn't have access to it. Let's stop technology completely, live in a hunter gatherer society because when you bring up arguments like that, that's we revert to if you want to start comparing to what happened in "the past".
Now this has made me a luddite who doesn't want trains to be maintained, planes to be fixed or women to be given pain relief.
Jun 9, 2019, 9:47 am
#84
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: UK. BAEC AAdvantage
Programs: Mucci Des Oeufs Brouilles et des Canards
Posts: 3,671
The succint gist of what I wrote in post #54 was "yeah the 787 is not really fun to fly on in Economy, but there's worst in the world", plus a pearl of wisdom from my uncle. And in post #76 I admitted in taking marketing with a pinch of salt.
Now this has made me a luddite who doesn't want trains to be maintained, planes to be fixed or women to be given pain relief.
Now this has made me a luddite who doesn't want trains to be maintained, planes to be fixed or women to be given pain relief.
Jun 9, 2019, 10:48 am
#85
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,237
I'm sorry, but I'm getting tired of people throwing up these "pearls". Yes, people suffered in the past. Plenty of people still suffer today too. But this isn't Omni, it's about whether the 787 should be avoided in Y. That's the OP's question. The comparisons are what other airlines have available, not historic events.
I'm being picked up by you about "historic events". I'd like to self-quote me again on my first post, bit in bold.
I'm sorry, but I'm getting tired of people throwing up these "pearls". Yes, people suffered in the past. Plenty of people still suffer today too. But this isn't Omni, it's about whether the 787 should be avoided in Y. That's the OP's question. The comparisons are what other airlines have available, not historic events.
There used to be a time when the 787-8 seats were indeed marginally narrower than the 787-9's, but now I believe this has been rectified (certainly on the newer tails). I say that because the seat have the same "asset number" whilst, for instance, the all-white Club seat on a 77W isn't the same as a grey-and-white seat on a 787.
Having said that, the 787 seat isn't in itself a pleasant experience. I've now flown Y on 787s on BA, both 788 and 789, LATAM and JAL. JAL is of course the shining light with its 2-4-2 arrangement. BA and LATAM were pretty similar, i.e. not great. In all honesty it's a matter of perception; I didn't mind neither flight. My worst flights in terms of crampedness, if that's a word, were on Emirates (10-abreast 77W) and Uzbekistan Airways with their 767 that can carry almost 300 people.
Having said that I remember what my uncle, who'd been deported to a work camp in Poland, once told me: "At least you didn't spend 3 days standing in a freight car together with a hundred other people". He had a habit of putting even my crappiest flight into perspective.
Having said that, the 787 seat isn't in itself a pleasant experience. I've now flown Y on 787s on BA, both 788 and 789, LATAM and JAL. JAL is of course the shining light with its 2-4-2 arrangement. BA and LATAM were pretty similar, i.e. not great. In all honesty it's a matter of perception; I didn't mind neither flight. My worst flights in terms of crampedness, if that's a word, were on Emirates (10-abreast 77W) and Uzbekistan Airways with their 767 that can carry almost 300 people.
Having said that I remember what my uncle, who'd been deported to a work camp in Poland, once told me: "At least you didn't spend 3 days standing in a freight car together with a hundred other people". He had a habit of putting even my crappiest flight into perspective.
Jun 12, 2019, 7:56 pm
#86
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: MEL/YMML
Programs: A3 Gold, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Discoverist, Amex Platinum
Posts: 287
JAL had only 88 Y seats in their longhaul international 787-8. It was definitely a better flight for Y travellers out there, but the result of low density config is every flight (at leases the ones I took) are completely full.
Jun 12, 2019, 11:24 pm
#87
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,531
most jl flights I’ve been on have been totally packed regardless of aircraft!
Jun 13, 2019, 6:12 am
#88
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Norwich, UK
Programs: IHG Gold
Posts: 309
Note that the northbound flight is a daytime flight so no need to sleep, just watch a few movies...
I've not flown long haul Y on a BA 787 before (only KLM, it was quite acceptable) but my wife is flying BA to DUR and back next week for a wedding - I'll report back her thoughts.
signol
I've not flown long haul Y on a BA 787 before (only KLM, it was quite acceptable) but my wife is flying BA to DUR and back next week for a wedding - I'll report back her thoughts.
signol
Jun 13, 2019, 7:08 am
#89
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: France
Programs: too many
Posts: 686
When I used to work for a famous airline software provider, I used to fly to DOH on the QR 787, on le late flight arriving at 2am, to be ready for work at 8 the next day.
Done it once, never again, not for the comfort (Y on Qr was OK-ish if you take abstraction of poor wine and loads of seat-swappers), but for the short time between arrival and work
Done it once, never again, not for the comfort (Y on Qr was OK-ish if you take abstraction of poor wine and loads of seat-swappers), but for the short time between arrival and work
Jun 13, 2019, 7:19 am
#90
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
It was on a daytime flight that I personally observed the phenomenon that had already been reported by cabin crew: an unusually high number of passengers choosing to stand in the aisles rather than sit in their seats. "Just watch a few movies" doesn't work so well if you're basically standing for the duration of the cruise.