Will I lose access to the CCR?
#16
Join Date: Nov 2013
Programs: KrisFlyer, BA Executive Club
Posts: 128
I’m sure last year, those impacted on flights to Canada (787 RR issue) were offered a significant amount of Avios in compensation- like 70k-90k each.
We were impacting on SJC route but BA did not budge and we ending up flying F on A380 to SFO.
We were impacting on SJC route but BA did not budge and we ending up flying F on A380 to SFO.
#17
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 122
Yes, EC 261/2004 does apply. There is no time limit on downgrade refunds as there is for changes and cancellations.
The only way to answer your question as to amount if to ask how many avios were used in the first place. 38,000 avios would be the appropriate refind on a ticket "costing" approximately 50,000 avios. Simply take the avios for the segment and multiply by 0.75.
The only way to answer your question as to amount if to ask how many avios were used in the first place. 38,000 avios would be the appropriate refind on a ticket "costing" approximately 50,000 avios. Simply take the avios for the segment and multiply by 0.75.
Given that all segments are affected, then from what you are saying I should be due 111,000 Avios back?
Does the 2-4-1 voucher usage effect this amount?
Also how do I go about claiming these Avios?
Last edited by PointsPointsPoints; Mar 18, 2019 at 6:15 pm Reason: mistake
#18
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 122
It is general practice - and it's frequently mentioned in Customer Guidelines - that if downgraded you get to keep CCR / First Wing access, and quite often the First baggage allowance, First TPs and First Avios too. That's what happened, on this route, for Air Belgium passengers. I have to say YYZ is certainly having quite some shuffling around at the moment, all things considered. But that said, the prospect of the new CW seats means that this outcome may work out quite well.
I have checked with our Business Manager and unfortunately if you accept the Club World flights then you would not receive the First benefits of lounge access to the Concorde Room/First Lounges etc.
#19
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,814
If the customer still wishes to travel in the Business Cabin on a KF operated flight:
Customer will receive the appropriate % refund value –this will be automatically processed once the customer has travelled by Global Refunds (do not Q booking)
The customer will retain their First baggage allowance, Concorde Room access and Avios / Tier Point earning
Customer will receive the appropriate % refund value –this will be automatically processed once the customer has travelled by Global Refunds (do not Q booking)
The customer will retain their First baggage allowance, Concorde Room access and Avios / Tier Point earning
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 122
So a bit o back a forth with YouFirst...
They would not offer any F ground product to the F to CW downgrades.
Also they are refusing to accept that this downgrade would fall under the EC261 regulations, and are only offering the Avios difference between the two classes. (38,000 Avios).
Can anyone confirm whether if we accept the downgrade that we would or wouldn't be due EC261 75% Avios refund?
They would not offer any F ground product to the F to CW downgrades.
Also they are refusing to accept that this downgrade would fall under the EC261 regulations, and are only offering the Avios difference between the two classes. (38,000 Avios).
Can anyone confirm whether if we accept the downgrade that we would or wouldn't be due EC261 75% Avios refund?
#21
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 7,691
Also they are refusing to accept that this downgrade would fall under the EC261 regulations, and are only offering the Avios difference between the two classes. (38,000 Avios).
Can anyone confirm whether if we accept the downgrade that we would or wouldn't be due EC261 75% Avios refund?
Last edited by Andriyko; Mar 20, 2019 at 4:16 am
#22
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,814
Also they are refusing to accept that this downgrade would fall under the EC261 regulations, and are only offering the Avios difference between the two classes. (38,000 Avios).
Can anyone confirm whether if we accept the downgrade that we would or wouldn't be due EC261 75% Avios refund?
Can anyone confirm whether if we accept the downgrade that we would or wouldn't be due EC261 75% Avios refund?
Frankly it may be better coming up with alternative arrangements, such as flying via JFK or on another flight or another date. There are other First flights to Toronto in October.
#24
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,016
You are not due any refund of "mandatory taxes" but there is maybe some room to declare that some taxes are not mandatory. For example, I think it is unclear if the fuel surcharge is a mandatory tax or not.
#25
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: JAX
Programs: Ex-BA/AA/CP/LY staff, BA Executive Club Blue, IHG Diamond, Marriott Silver, Chick-fil-A Red
Posts: 3,588
#26
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,016
That is not necessarily the way the European Court of Justice argues. When the court introduced the notion of "mandatory taxes", this raised the question on whether the airline can denote an arbitrary amount of money as "taxes" and so avoid paying back a percentage of that.
#27
Join Date: May 2013
Location: YYZ/YTZ/YUL
Programs: BA Gold, TK Elite
Posts: 1,558
YYZ doesn't have any AA non-hub flights, alas. ORD, JFK or PHL would be good choices, CLT a bit of a detour.
#28
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 305
That isn't what's happened here. This is the same flight -- there has been an aircraft swap, not a cancellation.
#29
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 7,691
It is a cancelation even if the flight is reinstated in the system under the same flight number but without the first cabin; it is in no way just an aircraft swap if the airline withdraws a particular cabin from the route. No downgrade has happened here anyway - the passenger has not been placed into any cabin as the flight has not taken place yet.
#30
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 122
It is a cancelation even if the flight is reinstated in the system under the same flight number but without the first cabin; it is in no way just an aircraft swap if the airline withdraws a particular cabin from the route. No downgrade has happened here anyway - the passenger has not been placed into any cabin as the flight has not taken place yet.