Careers that allow one to get BAEC GGL at a young age
 

Dear all,

I'm a secondary school student due to graduate this summer and begin studying Philosophy, Politics, and Economics (PPE) at the University of Oxford in October. I'm now considering potential career paths to pursue thereafter. My interests lie namely in (i) Industrial Organisation (ii) Finance (iii) Development. I enjoy intellectually-challenging and research-type tasks.

As such, to date, I've considered all of (i) Pursuing an Economics PhD, preferably at a US top5 program, and then becoming a professor or, alternatively, working as an Economist at the World Bank/IMF or an Economist at an Economic/Legal consulting firm (especially one that specialises in Industrial Organisation/ antitrust such as Compass Lexecon) (ii) Working at a firm such as Compass Lexecon directly after my undergraduate degree (albeit not as an Economist) (iii) Pursuing US law school and becoming an Antitrust or corporate M&A lawyer or antitrust prosecutor (iv) Working in equity research (directly out of undergrad).

I've always enjoyed flying and would like to do a lot of it before I turn 40 (at which point heavy flying would likely become boring and come at a cost of family).

Although, of course, what I chose will not be based entirely off this, which of these careers (or which similar alternatives) would allow for the most and highest-quality flying right from the start?

Specifically, which would allow me to fly enough (at the front) to become GGL before I turn 30 and allow me to maintain a heavy flying schedule until about 40 before cooling down to max. 10 trips a year from then onwards?

I'd be thinking of working in either London, New York, or Hong Kong (or all of them simultaneously) so would have all of BA/AA/CX to rack up the TPs on!

Thank you for your help!

So, I'm 26 and I've been GGL now for almost 2 years now and am normally earning about 6000TP per year.

I fell into my job while at university as a result of a side project I did, so I wouldn't pin anything particularly on the degree you end up doing. Apart from my specific degree (Computer Science) course, most of the friends I made at university ended up doing things mostly unrelated to their subject area. Anyway, I personally work predominantly on software in the rail industry - most of my recent work has been consulting with European and foreign entities. I do a reasonable amount of work that is in the public domain but this is all UK based, ironically the amount of travel required for that normally means I take domestic flights instead of using the trains that I provide information for...

Work travel contributes anywhere between a third and two thirds of my TP count normally and has done for about the last 5 years. About 1000TP/year comes from charitable work I do in Zambia supporting the computer systems and network at a hospital in its eastern province as a result of family links, I travel there on my own dime and contribute a good amount of equipment. The remaining amount is normally done from cheap fares on holidays and normally doing some more TP efficient itineraries. Having said that, the latter is normally because I quite enjoy flying and like trying out various different aircraft in any case. It's possibly worth adding that I personally have a business class or higher policy for anything over an hour or two for long standing health reasons.

Dear xjk1
Please don't get me wrong, but I think your optimism needs some advice. First; choose a career that fits your preferences, a position that gives you joy to work in an environment where you can develop and grow. Second; finish your studies first, there is a long way to bachelor, then master and maybe a PhD. And please, write a doctoral thesis about something that interests you personally, because it's a p* in the a* if you have to write some papers for peer review about something you are not interested in. Third; a status has no inherent value itself. It's worth almost nothing if your employer pays you a first flight anyway and if he does, make him pay for Lufthansa or Emirates. All the fuzz around status is made by airlines to bind the paying customers, it's really not important in the end.

If you like flying that much, why don't you become a pilot? Why the detour in academics?

All the best!

Flying only really becomes fun when you don't have to do it. One of life's little paradoxes.

LOL

Setting aside for a second that it is indeed odd to choose a career and a lifestyle just based on a airline status, we can transform this in a question like: what industries are more likely to offer a generous travel policy?

The answer in my experience is quite easy and obvious: follow the money.

If you work for profit rich industries in one of the top 3-4 companies, you would probably get J class travel quite easily even if not very senior. You also need a regional or global role, so that travel is instrumental in achieving your goals and can happen without you begging your boss for it.

Interestingly (and again quite obviously) I must say that when I was travelling mostly Y and I needed status the most, it was very hard to attain and retain. Now that I climbed the ladder and always travel (LH) in J, status is easy to attain/retain but less useful as most perks come with the tariff anyway.

Too true. Travelling when you have to is not enjoyable in the slightest, I do rather enjoy flying trips when when it has nothing to do with work though!

I love your enthusiasm of flying! I caught it at 17 and it hasn't faded... even a little bit! I have gone so far to actually learn to fly a small plane... Anyway. I'd also like to offer my sincere congratulations on getting into a prestigious place for your further education. I have two students headed to Oxbridge this year; Physics at Oxford and Natural Sciences at Cambridge (grades permitting!) this October. They are really excited. And Scared!

Now the serious bit. University is really weird lesson in life where you get a sum of money every month, have a weird variety of classes (some you like) and you're also surrounded by like minded people. Your afforded amazing life stories by people who have dedicated their lives to what you will study in only one term. My advice is do not shy away from all options just yet; see where University takes you. You might find yourself longing for a job which is travel intensive or something that pays well but is 9-5. Whatever you do chose, all the best and make sure you are are happy... not the airline!

Why the obsession with obtaining GGL?

As others have pointed out, trying to pick a career based on achieving airline status is crazy. Pick a career path you will enjoy. But trying to plan 5 years ahead, let alone 25 years ahead in this day and age is in my view pointless. The world, technology and business are changing at a faster pace than ever before.

I would say consulting--think something along the lines of McKinsey. I work at a comparable firm, and the travel is as much as you would like. I was, for instance, back and forth between London/NY weekly for a stint; typical policy for long-haul is 2x month fly backs, so clearly the TPs would add up quickly.

Clearly, the disadvantage is the wear-and-tear on yourself.

C

I echo the comments of not planning your career around some airline status, pursue what interests you and you cant go wrong. I am in my mid thirties and have become a GGL recently, the last five years i have been running my own businesses primarily in the tech sector across a number of countries /Regions inc USA, EMEA and APAC. before i went in to setting up my own business i spent nearly 10 years in Investment banking with frequent travel to New York, Tokyo and Hong Kong etc so frequent J and now F class travel is art of my life achieving status was never a goal/ambition but simply a outcome/byproduct of work and business needs.
However a premier card would be nice with my corporate spend on BA approaching > 1m GBP (group travel spend not just me!) in 2018. I also now spend a minimum of 50-70% of my time travelling and the excitement went many years ago

Thank you all for the responses! Sorry if it might not have been clear but I'm not trying to plan the next 25 years of my life based solely off of the prospect of getting GGL. As I stated before, my main interests are in Industrial organisation and antitrust etc, Finance, and Development. I also very much enjoy Political Theory & Political Philosophy, Logic, Philosophy of Science, Mathematical Analysis and much more (PPE is a degree that will allow me to pursue all these interests and will also make me very analytical, rigorous, and understanding - hence why I chose to apply for it). I enjoy playing and watching various sports too, and enjoy watching films etc. etc. etc. However, at least at this point: (i) Industrial Organisation (ii) Finance (iii) Development are what interest me most and are fields which various career paths (namely those I listed) would allow me to explore/ approach in different manners. @BAfromZRH , for example, I would love writing a thesis on one of these fields and pursuing a PhD specialising in it (in fact even to date I've written various brief 20-page or so papers on optimal patents, patent races, derivatives, financial crises etc) and would also enjoy working in equity research (based off work experience I've done) and assume I'd enjoy working somewhere such as Compass Lexecon based off the fact that what they do aligns very heavily with my interests. I'm not just listing random careers and asking which one I should pursue just to get GGL!!

I have always loved flying and as such, how much I get to fly, and the quality of that flying, will play a role in determining what career to pursue (which I don't think is OTT for FT given that on the thread pertaining to whether or not one would ever choose to take a job with a Y-only policy, many said no, even if the job would come with substantial financial perks, and given that some fly for days on TP-runs all the way to Hawaii to get status!).

Its the substantial flying (usually in J+) required to get GGL, and not so much the GGL card itself, that entices me (again, sorry if this wasn't clearly articulated). Also, I've always really wanted a status card, and especially a GGL/CCR card, just for the sense of achievement and prestige! (Although I feel this desire would quickly fade after actually receiving the cards and being used to J/F travel....). Overall though, its the substantial flying at the front of the plane that would get me GGL, and not so much the GGL card itself, which I'm after in a career.

And the reason for me trying to plan is mainly because to get into a highly competitive field, one needs to structure their degree in a particular way, take internships etc, and so thinking about it earlier is always better!

I would also make the point that we have no idea whether GGL will still exist, or what it might look like if it does, by the time you're 30. Same goes for TPs and all the other current features of BAEC.

[Edit: your post above clarifies that it's the flying you're more interested in as opposed to the status itself.]

I would hope that doing a PPE and meeting fascinating students and tutors will open your mind even further. You might even invent your own future version of Apple/Whatever. (In which case, GGL is irrelevant as you will become Premier.) You might decide to become something completely different. Teach First??

Keep your options open...................but know that the competition for your dream job will be selling themselves to that great employer from day 3 at Uni., so open options, but an intent to compete for the best jobs is required. (Why Day 3 . ?? Day 1 is beer, day 2 is sex, and day 3 is sector/profession and employer hunting.)

Intern work is something you need to investigate carefully.

If, after 3 years of mind expansion, you still do want your employer to pay for you to fly a lot, follow frandrake's advice. Get a job in a global top 3 or 4 Company, which is in a sector with high gross margins, and seek to make the job Global. Sectors such as Pharms and Oil will continue to have high margins for many years, as will consulting. McKinsey/Bain hire a lot of Oxbridge PPEs. Make sure you get a job with a route open to a Global HQ. Being no 1 in a "we don't care about that market" subsidiary is frustrating.

Avoid becoming Audit fodder at a beancounters. They are good at spin about their jobs, but............

After a year or two of employment, if that is what you decide to do, then consider doing an MBA at a decent School. London, Manchester, Insead still have good reputations in Europe, and a pitch for Harvard, Wharton, Stanford and Columbia is always worth it.

But..........................I went to Uni and PG to have fun. Much of the rest of my career was kind of accidental, and I enjoyed most of it - including lots of Gold years. (When Gold meant GGL).

@ClubflyerLondon , @gms , @creflo , @BAfromZRH . Thank you a lot for your responses!! Above I've outlined most of my reasoning.


Thank you @ScienceTeacher , and congratulations with your students' acceptances this year to Oxbridge! Best of luck to them. And thanks regarding the advice regarding flying and choosing. I do think university will be an interesting time that will help refine my thinking and perhaps guide me with choosing a career; my question is mainly regarding which careers are best in terms of maximising flying and TPs (things which I, bizarrely, really enjoy) which will play a role in helping me finally decide an exact path to pursue.

And interesting to hear that you had the same fascination in flying at my age! I've also been fortunate enough to have a few flying lessons (albeit nowhere near enough to get a licsense, although that may be coming down the road!

Intresting! Thank you. I mean I haven't ever travelled for work, so I couldn't really comment, but I personally really enjoy being in the air and also don't like being in one spot for too long! I'd much prefer, at least while I'm young, constantly moving around, and living primarily from hotel rooms!

And, @frandrake , @Beaulieu , and @Carmer thank you for the specific insights relating to where the flying can be found! Indeed, I've heard consulting at places like McKinsey and Boston Consulting group leads to constant flying. I'm not sure the extent to which I'd enjoy that line of work, however. Do you know if consultants at places like Compass Lexecon also fly a lot (even if its a bit less than McKinsey and Boston Consulting) and whether it's primarily short-haul/ long-haul, F/J/Y?

I'm currently in a position where I'm in a gap year after completing secondary school last year and looking to start university later this year. I've spent this gap year looking to get a 'relatively substantial' (for an 18 year old gap year student) points and have ended up with the 'luxury' to being able to travel for work, albeit domestically. Here are some tips I'll for you: @xjki

- Sometimes, you will end up working on things where you have no travel at all, or some travel or a lot of travel; make the most of what you can when you're there. Domestic travelling just meant maxing out AMEX bonuses and using the points from that for those J+ trips.
- Work through the tiers: I hit a lucky deal 2 years ago which allowed me to get Bronze for sub-£1.50/TP. Whilst not perfect, it was pretty good value for when I was 16. That meant I got downgraded to Blue for two years, and am planning to hit 600TP this year having scored lucky on the CX fares over the New Year.
- Free lounge access is nice, but redemptions are nicer. Everyone is different around here, and people have their approaches to points/status and their respective 'soft spots' for the industry. Make sure you're not going for GGL for the sake of GGL, but you'd quite like what goes along with it and it would be applicable.

It's great that you have a plan set out, and you've got an interest for travel in mind, but don't let it get the better of you, particularly in these very early stages of your career. However, get yourself stuck in and saving a bit of money to jump on some great deals is, in my opinion, a great way to 'get into the game' whilst young and get some status (perhaps not quite GGL... but better than no status eh?)

The last time I enjoyed every single flight I flew was probably in 2015. The travel started ramping up rapidly in 2016 due to various obligations and it's at that point that it starts becoming tedious and tiresome. It really depends on the job you do but I used to do a large number of day trips or short 1-night trips which I find killers on the body more so than jet lag associated with time zone hopping due to the long days. It's sustainable in the short term but the toll it takes on the body I've found too much so I've stopped doing that and will pad out the trips a bit more.

I'm self employed and have been since leaving uni, but I did do, while at uni, various internships in consulting firms. In my sector, there are companies like Palantir which really push (for "Forward Deployed Software Engineers" - basically client visiting software engineers) for people who are willing to travel and live out of hotels. Last year I nearly dropped everything and went to work for them, but then realised that if I am not enjoying the kind of travel I do now for work then that's not going to be sustainable in the long term. There's also the consideration of whether you are living to work or working to live - some people favour the former and adore the travel and that's great but it does become a strain. I strive to have the latter, but I managed after a period of sustained work travel in 2017 to have a long term relationship just collapse into the ether. Not an ideal situation, but it's a lesson learned that you should never have work get in the way of the other things in life that are there to live for.

Haha yes, precisely this is why I'm trying to narrow down my options to start focusing early on! Good to hear you had fun at university - having fun is, after all, a fundamental part of it. I hope to have fun too, but given how competitive the most desirable jobs are becoming to get, doing well/ getting top internships etc is becoming ever more important. The same thing goes for academic exploration: I do love learning as an end in itself and really look forward to the tutorials and classes I'm going to take. An academic career is one I am considering. But again, if I chose to pursue a different career, planning/ preparation etc are needed from an early stage.

And thank you for the advice regarding which companies and divisions within them to target, as well as the suggestion of pursuing an MBA. If I chose a corporate style career, Stanford GSB/ HBS would definitely both be my dream/ aim/ target!

Thanks - great advice. I haven't really had much free reign to travel on my own and on points-maximising itineraries much to date, but hope that I could indeed save money and use it towards leisure flying in the near future, as well as looking at potential corporate travel opportunities. I hope you enjoy the rest of your gap year and best of luck for university!

Sorry to hear about the relationship as well as your loss of pleasure in flying. My opinion and perspective towards flying will, almost certainly, change as I grow older as well as change if I begin travelling more. They may even change before I begin work, who knows? Right now, however, I think that lots of flying and hotel living (and taking advantage of the ability to do this whilst I have energy as a young person before I grow tired of it) would be something that I'm interested in. Sorry again to hear about how that long term relationship turned out - I do wish you the best in the future with regards to it. Thanks for the advice to not let things get in the way of what's most important

I'm not too worried about what's in the past now, emotions can be healed and so on and so forth - it is just something that you should be aware of, and I'd have been thankful if someone had said it to me a long time ago :) ! I was much of the same thinking as you in terms of flying and hotel living sounding good back when I was younger, but there's nothing more I cherish these days than getting home back to my own bed... ;)

My golden rule is never have your hobby become your job. It quickly looses it's appeal when you're doing something because you have to do it, not because you want to.

Similarly, waking up in a hotel room and wondering "what country am I in?" gets old after a while too. Some like that, but it can become an isolating existence after a while as you're unable to maintain relationships and friendships when you're on the road so much.

One thing to bear in mind is that your generation will probably not only live longer than previous generations, it will have to work longer. Medical advances mean you could possibly live to 100 (or even longer) but this means you also have to work longer to fund this.

Therefore, do you want to commit yourself on a career path now that may set you up for disappointment in the future simply because you want to earn loads of dosh?
I am not Carol Loomis but I can recommend you look at this book by Warren Buffet, who could easily become GGL if he wanted to . Now, say what you want about Warren Buffet, he makes the point that he "tap dances to work" every day. While I don't believe that this is how he feels every day, I think the point is clear.

Do what you enjoy.

Dont be afraid to change your mind "the search for one’s passion can be a distraction from living in the present"..

So when I first started working, I used to watch a few people who I worked with fly from Australia to London, once a month or so. Business class, nice hotels etc. I was so jealous of them - I wanted to be them, I wanted to be at the point where I was doing that flying.

Skip forwards ten years and I was the one doing it. I hated it - I looked back on my naive self and thought why did I want that. Business travel looks great from a distance, until you realise the toll it has on you.

My suggestion for early career people is that travel is not something you pick a career for - understand if you will tolerate it yes, but to use it as an influencer as to where to go doesn't seem right.

Drug dealer, arms dealer, drug runner, politician to name a few....

I certainly don't want to come across as patronising, but if we take things step by step, I'd say that one of the most difficulties many students face when they start university is to discover what they do not know. The different disciplines will all be entirely different from what you've been used to till now and once you figure that out, you may find that what really interests you is very different from what you expect you'll like. Similarly, you'll see a very different perspective on both jobs you've considered and others you haven't even thought about. The more open your mind about all of it, the more you'll make of the next few years.

My second point would be that to an extent, there are no careers that lead you to travel a certain amount in certain travel classes, it is jobs which do. In other words, virtually all of us on this forum will know of colleagues doing the same job as us who will travel either a lot less or a lot more than us depending on the case, and in many cases in different conditions as well depending on the company. There are a few threads you can look at where some members discuss their occupation (a few of us remain stubbornly out of those! :) ) which can give you a sense of the diversity of occupations that can lead to a heavy travel schedule.

My third point, already expressed by others differently is the notion that things (travel or otherwise) feel very different when you feel in control of whether you do them or not and when you don't. There is a difference between jobs where you'll travel a lot and jobs where you "can" travel a lot, and I don't think that age is a very good predictor of when you like to do it a lot or not; apart from anything else, whether you were sick last week might shape your mood a lot more than whether you are 25 or 40 or 60.

I think it is great that you know you like to travel and want to travel a lot. It is a perfectly valid criterion to bear in mind when you'll decide which job to go for but that won't be as simple as choosing a career (except if you intend to become an airline pilot or something similar!)

THE FOLLOWING IS ALL SAID AFFECTIONATELY AND IN JEST.....


....He's mapping 25 years, I couldn't tell you my next 25 days! :D

There is some amazing advice from some learned voices here and I can only mirror them tbh. I will add that to a large degree no career path is either a sure fire way or one which will exclude you from travel. Learning how to game the airlines as much as possible is probably a better approach than trying to map a large and highly changeable part of your life. It is certainly commendable that you are looking forward but I am sure I wont be alone in pointing out that with most your life ahead of you it's wise to remember you have no idea what is around the corner be it good or bad.

Hard work, research and good time management can allow you to travel the world if your passionate and committed enough. GFL is certainly something to have but not something i'd look to structure my life around especially as none of us know what tomorrow holds and how life may affect us.

I echo a lot of what is said above.

I have ended up following a similar path to one of those OP sets out (so far!), and barely travel for work at all. I'm quite happy with that. Some of my colleagues with slightly different focuses travel a lot more. None of us could predict any of this when we were 18, and nor would we have wanted to.

(Also, working in London, New York and Hong Kong simultaneously sounds unbelievably tiring!)

Indeed my young cousin (he's in his early 30s) has made a few appearances here, he has a First PPE, and promptly took a lifelong vow of poverty and chastity. He seems very happy, mind, but that may be because he drinks and swears more than me.

I don't have anything of substance to add to the carefully considered points above, other than it is worth occasionally asking yourself this question: "are you doing something now, which in five years' time will still motivate you to get up in the morning raring to go?". Oh, and don't dismiss public service - it doesn't always get a good rap but few things are more fulfilling than serving your country, in whatever way you wish to define that.

Enjoy your student years while you can, whilst 3 years seems a long time, it will fly by and get out of University what you want from it. If you want to go for 1st class degree and a masters etc then go for it, my time was not the most academic. I was in the gym or in the rowing boat but I scraped a respectable degree and wouldn't change it for the world, I got from it what I wanted.

If you don't know what you want to do now don't worry, just go with the flow and see what opportunities come to you. The most interesting people I've met often don't know what they want to do now, even after spending years at large/successful companies.

To try and answer your original question. I've spoke to and met countless people travelling and more often than not the careers are so varied.

There are the obvious patterns, banking, consulting, big 4 audit firms, oil and gas, however I have friends who work for these multinationals and sometimes they have to battle for J travel in the early years of their career.

What you also have to consider is that often the multinationals you are going from corporate office to corporate office in the world cities, with
perhaps occasional visit to a regional one. Whilst making shuttles to New York and Hong Kong at first sounds great, believe me in time the same places wear thin.

Personally I am lucky that my job, which is sales in a specific area allows me a varied travel schedule, of course I am still visiting places again. I always remember one gentleman `I met who was a Singaporean, living in Switzerland who looks for FIFA implementing common referee practice with all of its member countries, it just proves endless careers can take you places.

Good luck in your future endavours

To be fair you set a fairly low bar CWS :D

To the OP, my career has been a range of lucky chances, being in the right place at the right time, and a bit of hard work. The job that I first wanted to do when I graduated disappeared from existance within a couple of years. Although I can't buy-in to the percentage, the sentiment behind the research that Dell undertook that "85% Of Jobs That Will Exist In 2030 Haven’t Been Invented Yet" is something that would make me set a general direction rather than a firm path in my career.

Therefore, I will end up with CCR/GGL this year through 95% personal travel, an understanding boss (4 extra weeks unpaid leave if you have a child!), and an even more understanding wife (as I often take the 4 weeks unpaid leave by myself!!).

Therefore I'd say follow what interests you and what you feel will remunerate you well enough to pay for the travel you want - I agree with the other posters who say that even early morning travel feels better when you don't have a day of business meetings at the end of it!

Good luck.

xjk1 I love how you are so full of hopes and dreams for your future, and I personally believe we move toward our dreams. The only thing I'm wondering about is you say you want GGL at a young age, but it is worth thinking about why this is so important to you. You enjoy flying - great! But don't worry about the external trinkets of status - do what you really want, and enjoy the rewards (in whatever form they take) when they naturally come :cool: