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-   -   BA at London-Gatwick 2019 (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1932012-ba-london-gatwick-2019-a.html)

vectismanpaul Sep 23, 2018 5:30 am

BA at London-Gatwick 2019
 
If it's ok thought I would start a thread where we could place all news regarding BA at London Gatwick 2019 now that they have had a year to plan after acquiring the Monarch slots in late 2017.
Obviously this year has been one of keeping slots utilised, using some leased aircraft and adding some new short haul destinations. By 2019 aircraft and crew should be more readily available to service the slots.
By March next year at least 10 of the 777s will have been refurbished and new Airbus A320/321 deliveries to Heathrow will allow more A319/320 to be redeployed to Gatwick. I assume this will mean less need to lease
in extra frames. Apart from one A319 withdrawal no other A319/320 have left the fleet as originally planned. I presume this was due to the need to service the Monarch slots.
Route wise I have read that Kos will start in May and that there will be increases to Cancun and Las Vegas compared to this summer. All other destinations seem to be returning with the exception of Oakland.
I think most winter 2018/2019 changes have already been announced, with frequency increases on some short haul and long haul routes. Cologne is also introduced from November.
Just thought this thread would be useful to pool information. Thanks.

TedToToe Sep 23, 2018 7:32 am

With 767s being withdrawn from LHR and A320 densification ongoing, I guess it will still be a while before more A320s can be transferred to LGW.

vectismanpaul Sep 23, 2018 7:54 am

Yes but by next March about a dozen new ones will have been delivered. Only 5 or 6 more 767s to be retired.

george77300 Sep 23, 2018 8:51 am


Originally Posted by vectismanpaul (Post 30235747)
Yes but by next March about a dozen new ones will have been delivered. Only 5 or 6 more 767s to be retired.

Just 5. 3 go on 31st Oct and the other two on the 25th Nov. The neos are coming quicker than that. 5 delivered so far this year with another 4 due. Obviously continuing into 2019 too. At least 12 delivered as you said by March so the capacity will be growing.

vectismanpaul Sep 23, 2018 3:11 pm

Updated fleet plans will probably be available on the Capital Markets Day in November.
Hopefully route announcements will be made in the coming months to allow for a decent lead in before the beginning of the 2019 Summer season.

TWCLAM Sep 24, 2018 4:15 am

Not that it will matter for squat but what would be your top three destinations to be added to LGW be? Just for fun of course as I can't see BA making commercial decisions based on FT comments any time soon( although I think we all know things would be better if they did!)

I'd like to see BKK added for certain & getting HEL would make TP runs easier & while i'm a fan of Germany generally speaking TXL or MUC would be nice to have.

BKK & TXL( well Berlin) are incredibly popular routes/ destinations for those living in the south and would make good sense imo.

A P Yu Sep 24, 2018 4:36 am

I'd expect more Vueling flights to take up some of the MON slots. Sadly.
Maybe a cheeky Level rotation somewhere too to check the public response to IAG Low Cost?

Globaliser Sep 24, 2018 4:39 am


Originally Posted by TWCLAM (Post 30238605)
I'd like to see BKK added for certain ...

BKK & TXL( well Berlin) are incredibly popular routes/ destinations for those living in the south and would make good sense imo.

BA already seems to have trouble making LHR-BKK work, despite the apparently rampant enthusiasm from those living in the south. How would adding LGW-BKK make any sense?

hshs Sep 24, 2018 4:41 am


Originally Posted by TWCLAM (Post 30238605)
Not that it will matter for squat but what would be your top three destinations to be added to LGW be? Just for fun of course as I can't see BA making commercial decisions based on FT comments any time soon( although I think we all know things would be better if they did!)

I'd like to see BKK added for certain & getting HEL would make TP runs easier & while i'm a fan of Germany generally speaking TXL or MUC would be nice to have.

BKK & TXL( well Berlin) are incredibly popular routes/ destinations for those living in the south and would make good sense imo.

I'd love to see DUB added, so we can connect to long-haul destinations out of LGW on BA, rather than having to get from LHR to LGW or fly Aer Lingus into LGW.

TWCLAM Sep 24, 2018 5:31 am


Originally Posted by Globaliser (Post 30238654)
BA already seems to have trouble making LHR-BKK work, despite the apparently rampant enthusiasm from those living in the south. How would adding LGW-BKK make any sense?

Maybe if they moved it a little further south it might work better as it's generally considered a hate crime for trendy south coasters not to have visited the place by 30 lol ( tongue firmly in cheek throughout)
@hshs very fair point

Akoz Sep 24, 2018 6:18 am

I would like to see a LGW-ABZ route back as currently having to use Easyjet a lot.

geordiejetsetter Sep 24, 2018 6:19 am

What’s the likihood of an increase in domestic routes?

I’m thinking specifically NCL here.

TedToToe Sep 24, 2018 6:35 am

I think HAV is a possibility. St. Marten has also been rumoured. I'd be on the fence on that one, figuratively, at least!

cornishsimon Sep 24, 2018 6:54 am

LGW domestic would be nice to have back should BA be serious about the base. Especially an AM and PM wave to connect with the long haul and longer euro routes.

The current NQY-LON pso contract currently operates by Flybe is currently being re-tendered and I would certainly be curious to see if BA bid considering Flybe carries in excess of 100k on the route last year on 19 rotations each way on an E95


cs

bhbloke Sep 24, 2018 7:59 am


Originally Posted by geordiejetsetter (Post 30238880)
What’s the likihood of an increase in domestic routes?

I’m thinking specifically NCL here.

I'd expect a MAN rotation or two would be useful, especially with all those Manchester United fans living in Surrey. ;)

Cymro Sep 24, 2018 8:15 am

BKK might work if it transferred wholesale.

HKT would be very cool, though it's made easier by the ability to transfer through KUL.

HNL non-stop on an ex-DY 787 :)

T8191 Sep 24, 2018 8:18 am


Originally Posted by Cymro
HNL non-stop on an ex-DY 787

HNL non-stop? Where are the TPs in that? Who is this person?? ;)

T8191 Sep 24, 2018 8:21 am


Originally Posted by hshs (Post 30238661)
I'd love to see DUB added, so we can connect to long-haul destinations out of LGW on BA, rather than having to get from LHR to LGW or fly Aer Lingus into LGW.

And in the reverse direction too, Sir! Pre-Clearance ex-DUB to the USA is a little treasure, only spoiled by having to change LON airports and build c. 4 hours into the journey.

I won’t ask for JER-DUB, though, as it loses TPs. :D

AmaaiZeg Sep 24, 2018 10:11 am

Would love to fly direct from LGW to Bonaire.

bhbloke Sep 24, 2018 10:23 am

Enough LH airframes to squeeze in Bali a couple of times a week?

(Maybe as an add on to the BKK route)

47Aitken Sep 24, 2018 10:40 am

Connection times should be reduced
 
With all the operations in the South Terminal , I was hoping that they could reduce connections international to domestic which I think stand at 90 minutes

Pilot37 Sep 24, 2018 10:53 am

Was told by LGW crew last month that BKK has been reviewed with a view to moving it to LGW a few years ago, but in the end the figures made more sense with it being operated by MF. However with so many slots to fill and LHR’s limited supply - never say never to a wholesale move!
I was also told HNL as a tag-on to the OAK service had been investigated but the numbers didn’t stack up.

Havana would definitely be an interesting addition, not sure on St Maartin, but given their coverage in the region - it is a missing piece of the jigsaw.

Pilot37

Confus Sep 24, 2018 2:49 pm


Originally Posted by Pilot37 (Post 30240028)
Was told by LGW crew last month that BKK has been reviewed with a view to moving it to LGW [...]
I was also told HNL as a tag-on to the OAK service had been investigated but the numbers didn’t stack up.

Havana would definitely be an interesting addition, not sure on St Maartin, but given their coverage in the region - it is a missing piece of the jigsaw.

I wouldn’t be surprised if BKK were the prime candidate for the high-density A350s when they arrive, given that the struggle is apparently with premium yields.

HNL would never have taken off as a tag from OAK as BA has never had - and will never have - traffic/cabotage rights. It’s direct or nothing.

St Maarten would be nice but I think too sewn up by AF and KL. Are there any more ‘colonies’ in the Caribbean without British service? That would seem the most logical to me.

Greenpen Sep 24, 2018 2:58 pm

Would a LGW to LHR service work? Seems a good thing to do, perhaps a walk on shuttle service. Cut out all the hassle of changing airports.

BA6948 Sep 24, 2018 3:04 pm


Originally Posted by Confus (Post 30240925)

I wouldn’t be surprised if BKK were the prime candidate for the high-density A350s when they arrive, given that the struggle is apparently with premium yields.

HNL would never have taken off as a tag from OAK as BA has never had - and will never have - traffic/cabotage rights. It’s direct or nothing.

St Maarten would be nice but I think too sewn up by AF and KL. Are there any more ‘colonies’ in the Caribbean without British service? That would seem the most logical to me.

There is St. Vincent that is not served by BA. Could be a tag on to one of the other Caribbean routes.

other than that, BA could look at ex Monarch routes: Banjul, Goa, Agadir, Enfidha, Djerba, Skiathos, Mytiline, Fuerteventura...

simons1 Sep 24, 2018 3:07 pm


Originally Posted by Greenpen (Post 30240951)
Would a LGW to LHR service work? Seems a good thing to do, perhaps a walk on shuttle service. Cut out all the hassle of changing airports.

Non runner.

Dead in the water on environmental grounds and no chance that slots at LHR would be allocated when there is already a bus link in place.

gypsyjaney Sep 24, 2018 3:47 pm

Can anyone offer any insight into the extremely unfriendly BA-MLA slots from LGW this winter? Nothing before midday and most flights are very much earlier than that (06:15, 6.30 and 08.05). Is it simply that they are cheap slots? I can’t believe it’s due to customer demand.

vectismanpaul Sep 24, 2018 3:53 pm

Fuerteventura has been operated recently but I believe is now suspended. For years British Caledonian used to operate to Dakar, Banjul, Freetown and Monrovia from Gatwick. Some of these were operated by BA from Heathrow, until the deadly epidemic a few years back, and have not since returned. Banjul is a popular winter seasonal destination but maybe a bit far for an A320 and not sure it could support the capacity of a 777.
Thanks for all the responses so far. Hopefully some definite news will emerge in the coming months. I have heard the 777 fleet could go to 15 based and A319/A320 to about 30 based. (Total 45). Not bad considering that in the recent past 32 based aircraft was the average. I have noticed that a greater number of usually based Heathrow A320/777 aircraft tend to rotate more often between the two airports. I suspect this is to meet seasonal capacity demands and maintenance requirements. Thanks again for the ideas and information provided so far.

Ldnn1 Sep 24, 2018 4:05 pm


Originally Posted by gypsyjaney (Post 30241123)
Can anyone offer any insight into the extremely unfriendly BA-MLA slots from LGW this winter? Nothing before midday and most flights are very much earlier than that (06:15, 6.30 and 08.05). Is it simply that they are cheap slots? I can’t believe it’s due to customer demand.

No specific insight but I think 08.05 is a pretty reasonable slot for a MLA flight - it's not a silly early start and gets you there in good time to have a full afternoon / evening. A later inbound would be nicer though for those wanting to maximise a short break.

The first wave departures are less civilised but plenty of people make use of them.

gypsyjaney Sep 24, 2018 4:12 pm


Originally Posted by Ldnn1 (Post 30241175)
No specific insight but I think 08.05 is a pretty reasonable slot for a MLA flight - it's not a silly early start and gets you there in good time to have a full afternoon / evening. A later inbound would be nicer though for those wanting to maximise a short break.

The first wave departures are less civilised but plenty of people make use of them.

Unfortunately for me, I’m not an early bird! I appreciate it’s subjective but 8 am still means an arrival and check in before 7 - not the greatest start to a holiday. I do know people who aren’t too troubled by this though. It’s the lack of even one afternoon departure that irritates me.

simons1 Sep 25, 2018 2:03 am


Originally Posted by gypsyjaney (Post 30241123)
Nothing before midday and most flights are very much earlier than that (06:15, 6.30 and 08.05).

Aren't those all before midday?:confused:

Those times sound ideal for a late morning/lunchtime arrival and hotel check in at 2pm.

RobDBA Sep 25, 2018 2:10 am


Originally Posted by simons1 (Post 30242475)
Aren't those all before midday?:confused:

Those times sound ideal for a late morning/lunchtime arrival and hotel check in at 2pm.

Assume they meant after midday. I have to agree that these departure times are simply dreadful, 8am means leaving home around 5am or before unless you live very close to Gatters. No thank you!

simons1 Sep 25, 2018 2:22 am


Originally Posted by RobDBA (Post 30242487)
Assume they meant after midday. I have to agree that these departure times are simply dreadful, 8am means leaving home around 5am or before unless you live very close to Gatters. No thank you!

Well I guess you can't please everyone.

All the Malta flights from Gatwick go in the am - Easyjet, BA, Air Malta and Thomas Cook.

T8191 Sep 25, 2018 2:52 am

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by gypsyjaney (Post 30241193)


Unfortunately for me, I’m not an early bird! I appreciate it’s subjective but 8 am still means an arrival and check in before 7 - not the greatest start to a holiday. I do know people who aren’t too troubled by this though. It’s the lack of even one afternoon departure that irritates me.

As you well know, I'm sure, MLA flight timings have always been a bit "random". But I do take your point that the latest schedules seem worse.

Personally, despite the early departures from LGW, I'm happiest to get to MLA early in the day to maximise the benefits of the hotel night I'm already paying for. Sadly, with our connection from JER, it means we have to have the previous night at LGW as well, to ensure we make the connection. Last trip was 0615 from LGW, but next April it's 1605 (!!) ... saving the overnight hotel but wasting a day in Valletta and not arriving until 2010. :(.

For comparison, attached is the July 2014 schedule - timings scattered all over the place depending on the day!

Travelling Inspector Sep 25, 2018 3:11 am

This had me worried for a moment - I'm booked on a November Tuesday departure at 11:20, carefully selected as the only reasonably-timed option. Flying in the front as it's essentially a TP run (two cheap nights and then back on Thursday 13:05) but both flights are conveniently timed for the full lunch experience...

gypsyjaney Sep 25, 2018 10:37 am

[QUOTE=simons1;30242475]Aren't those all before midday?:confused:

Those times sound ideal for a late morning/lunchtime arrival and hotel check in at 2pm.[/QUOTE


Sorry - I did indeed mean after midday. It’s what you get for trying to finish typing in the lounge and still catch your flight!

gypsyjaney Sep 25, 2018 10:43 am


Originally Posted by simons1 (Post 30242505)
Well I guess you can't please everyone.

All the Malta flights from Gatwick go in the am - Easyjet, BA, Air Malta and Thomas Cook.


Yes, I suppose I have just been spoilt - as T8191 has pointed out, at least in the past there has been a choice - thus providing something for everyone. I sometimes take EasyJet from Malta - but never out of LGW because it goes at something like 6.am.

T8191 Sep 25, 2018 11:00 am

I would note that my April 16:05 departure was in panic while they were loading sale fares. I may try to pay to change that! (non-flex, so no chance!).

But LGW seems to still be the unwanted child of BA :(

LTN Phobia Sep 25, 2018 11:07 am


Originally Posted by gypsyjaney (Post 30241123)
Can anyone offer any insight into the extremely unfriendly BA-MLA slots from LGW this winter? Nothing before midday and most flights are very much earlier than that (06:15, 6.30 and 08.05). Is it simply that they are cheap slots? I can’t believe it’s due to customer demand.

There were some LGW-MLA like that in winter before too, so it's not new this winter.

I really do not like catching a flight at early hours of the morning either.


Originally Posted by simons1 (Post 30242505)

All the Malta flights from Gatwick go in the am - Easyjet, BA, Air Malta and Thomas Cook.

Some BA departures for LGW-MLA are in the afternoon though.

rapidex Sep 25, 2018 11:07 am


Originally Posted by T8191 (Post 30244002)
I would note that my April 16:05 departure was in panic while they were loading sale fares. I may try to pay to change that! (non-flex, so no chance!).

But LGW seems to still be the unwanted child of BA :(

I think that dubious honour was reserved for MAN.


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