Denied boarding: BA incorrect gate claim
May 10, 2018, 8:03 pm
#166
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ADDED: It's impractical to suggest that someone, especially someone without high tier elite airline status or access to a special phone number for premium cabin guests, telephone the airline to ask whether it's OK to arrive at the airport later. First of all, the time waiting on hold could easily extend to hours (even without IROPs) and exceed the amount by which the flight is delayed or the time that the passenger should leave to go to the airport, even assuming that one has hours to waste rather than spending the time doing last minute essential tasks such as packing, checking out of a hotel and having the bill corrected, or finishing last minute business meetings or assignments. Secondly, the phone agents are unlikely to reliably give an accurate answer or, in some cases, even to understand the question properly. [The last time I tried to phone an airline to ask whether they had an earlier bag drop deadline for some particular large but nonhub airport, the agent just recited the standard policy without understanding that I was asking about the list of exceptions for particular airports, which I knew existed but the phone agent denied. She also tried to give me the recommended time for nonelites in coach, rather than the deadline information. Calling was a total waste of time.]
Last edited by Jimmie76; May 11, 2018 at 3:50 am
May 10, 2018, 8:05 pm
#167
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There in red highlighted and bolded language, you are expressly told to report as originally scheduled.
This is unamiguous and cannot reasonably missed.
1. You were notified of a delay.
2. You were told that the original airport arrival and check-in deadlines apply.
3. You deliberately changed your plans to delay them, contravening BA's express instructions.
Hard to argue in any forum that this was not entirely of your own making and that whatever the consequences of having struck out on your own are, they were your choosing.
May 10, 2018, 9:09 pm
#168
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Sometimes what people write or say is not what they mean.
If you're travelling on this flight and we haven't contacted you please check in and make sure you are at the airport in time for the original scheduled departure time.
BA contacted the OP. It doesn't say unless we have contacted you and told you to arrive at a different time.
US small claims courts take a dim view of things not being made abundantly clear, and will frequently find in favor of the consumer if verbiage can be interpreted differently.
If you're travelling on this flight and we haven't contacted you please check in and make sure you are at the airport in time for the original scheduled departure time.
BA contacted the OP. It doesn't say unless we have contacted you and told you to arrive at a different time.
US small claims courts take a dim view of things not being made abundantly clear, and will frequently find in favor of the consumer if verbiage can be interpreted differently.
May 10, 2018, 9:16 pm
#169
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May 10, 2018, 10:56 pm
#171
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May 11, 2018, 12:38 am
#173
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Thank you amit175 for your detailed answer, and I do understand quite a bit more as to what drove your decision. And I will add that I'm sorry things worked out the way they did for you.
If in your shoes, my advice would be to include that the situation had in fact been very irregular during each of the three preceding days, and that you were also already made aware the same morning of a delay to your flight for various reasons (whether it was weather or equipment or both). And that BA was advising to check flight status prior to travelling to the airport (I'm reasonably sure on 13 Dec they still were - certainly on 12 Dec they were). You also arrived well within the time ahead of actual departure (I believe from what you wrote that the gate opened for boarding only an hour after you arrived, and that departure was almost an hour after that), which you had been made aware of during the disruption that was happening in that period. It is probably still a long shot, but that's what strikes me as the strongest argument that you acted on the basis of what the airline and airport told you, and you arrived within reasonable time for the actual travel, but you were not accepted on the flight you purchased.
I can understand owing to BA's own processes that the OP was offloaded and replaced with someone else, but I'm still genuinely disappointed that BA wasn't more accommodating in these circumstances.
All that said (and I don't mean to chastise you, as you've certainly suffered enough), I'd have probably made sure to go in extra early had I been in your shoes that day. As it was, I was sitting in PHL (thankfully not LHR) without a change of clothes as my bags were still delayed owing to the same weather issues affecting 10-12 December - but at least I had booked onto an AA flight for the 11th (which left right on time) rather than BA. Otherwise, I may well have still been stuck on the 13th. It's one of the few times I ended up happy to have had my baggage misdirected... If I had had to check it in, the lines even in Business check-in might have made it hard for me to get through in time for my flight. This is one of the ways I know what a mess LHR really was in those few days.
If in your shoes, my advice would be to include that the situation had in fact been very irregular during each of the three preceding days, and that you were also already made aware the same morning of a delay to your flight for various reasons (whether it was weather or equipment or both). And that BA was advising to check flight status prior to travelling to the airport (I'm reasonably sure on 13 Dec they still were - certainly on 12 Dec they were). You also arrived well within the time ahead of actual departure (I believe from what you wrote that the gate opened for boarding only an hour after you arrived, and that departure was almost an hour after that), which you had been made aware of during the disruption that was happening in that period. It is probably still a long shot, but that's what strikes me as the strongest argument that you acted on the basis of what the airline and airport told you, and you arrived within reasonable time for the actual travel, but you were not accepted on the flight you purchased.
I can understand owing to BA's own processes that the OP was offloaded and replaced with someone else, but I'm still genuinely disappointed that BA wasn't more accommodating in these circumstances.
All that said (and I don't mean to chastise you, as you've certainly suffered enough), I'd have probably made sure to go in extra early had I been in your shoes that day. As it was, I was sitting in PHL (thankfully not LHR) without a change of clothes as my bags were still delayed owing to the same weather issues affecting 10-12 December - but at least I had booked onto an AA flight for the 11th (which left right on time) rather than BA. Otherwise, I may well have still been stuck on the 13th. It's one of the few times I ended up happy to have had my baggage misdirected... If I had had to check it in, the lines even in Business check-in might have made it hard for me to get through in time for my flight. This is one of the ways I know what a mess LHR really was in those few days.
I don't mean this to sound harsh for OP, who's already on the receiving end of a very expensive lesson, but the main takeaway from this thread should be "leave well enough alone." The FT ethos is to be proactive and often that's a good strategy to get out ahead of rebooking in irrops. But in this instance, OP was already awake and went to the trouble of rebooking a pre-booked car to save what sounds like around 25 minutes at the airport. This case is a useful reminder that sometimes being too proactive can create new and expensive problems, instead of solving them.
May 11, 2018, 1:15 am
#174
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We were very courteous on the day. And even through the complaints process. BA's position all through was to deny full liability. Also, it is very normal for airlines to contact passengers with settlement offers in the CEDR process, in this case they didnt - btw CEDR adjudication by its nature is adversarial - I couldnt be showering roses on them in that process, but wasnt impolite either.
Last edited by amit175; May 11, 2018 at 1:16 am Reason: incomplete
May 11, 2018, 1:55 am
#175
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We were very courteous on the day. And even through the complaints process. BA's position all through was to deny full liability. Also, it is very normal for airlines to contact passengers with settlement offers in the CEDR process, in this case they didnt - btw CEDR adjudication by its nature is adversarial - I couldnt be showering roses on them in that process, but wasnt impolite either.
May 11, 2018, 2:46 am
#176
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Polite or otherwise -- and it's always far better to be polite in cases like this than to not -- any "compensation" was only ever going to be a customer-service gesture since there's no ambiguity about the relevant cut-off times on BA's website. It wasn't even a special circumstance like a flat tire on the way to the airport, but rather an argument with them about the clear meaning of their own website. It's ultimately a matter of individual taste how far one wants to push a claim like this, but MCOL now doesn't seem like a good use of time or money.
May 11, 2018, 2:58 am
#177
Join Date: May 2013
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Is that a surprise to you? Why would they make a settlement offer if they believe they are not at fault?
May 11, 2018, 3:27 am
#178
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Thanks for posting this. Sorry I think we are talking at cross purposes here. Since you mentioned you learnt about the delay on the app, my reference was to the status wording on the app. That screenshot is, I believe, fr the old version of the website.
May 11, 2018, 3:34 am
#179
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We were very courteous on the day. And even through the complaints process. BA's position all through was to deny full liability. Also, it is very normal for airlines to contact passengers with settlement offers in the CEDR process, in this case they didnt - btw CEDR adjudication by its nature is adversarial - I couldnt be showering roses on them in that process, but wasnt impolite either.
your point about being polite is important and to your credit but irrelevant to the point several of us made that your claiming they were liable (as you confirm here) and then choosing a legal route made a gesture of good will an impossible outcome. It’s mechanical: the moment the words liability or rights or court are mentioned, the customer team passes on the file to the legal team and won’t touch it again. It’s a matter of competence and caution on their part, their are not competent to deal with legal matters the same way legal teams don’t deal with customer gesture (settlements are a legal calculation and offer, not a customer gesture)
May 11, 2018, 4:01 am
#180
Join Date: Aug 2013
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I wouldn't say it's that black and white. A company may well offer to settle even if they think they are ultimately more likely to win than lose. It's more a question of how likely. And of course that's weighed against the cost of settling, and the cost (in finances, resource and reputation) of fighting it.
I do agree that BA appears very confident of its position here so would see no need to make an offer.