Do BA oversell First?
Jun 29, 2019, 7:26 am
#46
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: BA - Blue > Bronze > Silver > Bronze > Blue
Posts: 6,812
Don’t get too excited about it happening as it would inevitably end up in your fares going up.
Jun 29, 2019, 7:34 am
#47
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,196
In the scheme of things the number of passengers denied boarding or downgraded is minimal and I'm not sure legislation is needed and whilst on a simple level there is a persuasive argument in favour for banning it the reality is very different when you consider the wider implications.
Jun 29, 2019, 7:46 am
#48
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,809
For the situation last night in T7, I have heard from someone in JFK that "about a dozen" people accepted offers to stay over in the Hilton JFK with US$800 and an upgraded seat today. Agents tend to look out for students who would find this an attractive offer, so I doubt many people were complaining. I just wish they occasionally asked some older lags too, but they typically don't need to do that. Dozens more were upgraded to better seats or accepted moves / wanted moves to other services the same evening. I suspect the sum total would be very few if anyone was seriously put out, a dozen happy students, and an even happier BA revenue manager.
So long as this is handled professionally, overbooking is a positive thing to do.
Jun 29, 2019, 8:12 am
#49
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London
Programs: BA BLUE BADGE
Posts: 1,323
We're talking about the well-under 1% scenario, someone being denied passage, whereas no shows is pretty much 100% going to happen on longhaul. A lot more people are denied boarding simply by being late. In order to get rid of overbooking, the implications would be enormous and it ultimately only benefits those affluent enough to not care about the fare. It is interesting that we very rarely hear complaints about this on this forum, when every complaint tends to be well magnified.
For the situation last night in T7, I have heard from someone in JFK that "about a dozen" people accepted offers to stay over in the Hilton JFK with US$800 and an upgraded seat today. Agents tend to look out for students who would find this an attractive offer, so I doubt many people were complaining. I just wish they occasionally asked some older lags too, but they typically don't need to do that. Dozens more were upgraded to better seats or accepted moves / wanted moves to other services the same evening. I suspect the sum total would be very few if anyone was seriously put out, a dozen happy students, and an even happier BA revenue manager.
So long as this is handled professionally, overbooking is a positive thing to do.
For the situation last night in T7, I have heard from someone in JFK that "about a dozen" people accepted offers to stay over in the Hilton JFK with US$800 and an upgraded seat today. Agents tend to look out for students who would find this an attractive offer, so I doubt many people were complaining. I just wish they occasionally asked some older lags too, but they typically don't need to do that. Dozens more were upgraded to better seats or accepted moves / wanted moves to other services the same evening. I suspect the sum total would be very few if anyone was seriously put out, a dozen happy students, and an even happier BA revenue manager.
So long as this is handled professionally, overbooking is a positive thing to do.
Selling something that is not available is not "a positive thing to do" it is underhand profiteering and should be outlawed as a sharp practice.
Jun 29, 2019, 8:26 am
#50
Join Date: Jun 2011
Programs: BAEC Gold, HHonors Gold, Marriot Bonvoy Gold, MeliaRewards Gold, Radisson Gold
Posts: 816
If an Airline strictly sold only the exact number of seats available, and then the inevitable no-shows/late changes meant a significant (in revenue terms) number of seats went empty on an aircraft... then in addition to the environmental implications of that, it does stand to reason that average ticket prices would very likely increase (for everyone), in order to cover this loss. Or do you deny that this is a possible outcome? If so, could you explain how/why you are adamant there would be none of these consequences?
Also, the airline hasn't always "been paid for a seat" have they. A good portion of flexible tickets are cancelled and need to be refunded and may not be re-booked at all. I've done this myself - often. And often last-minute.
Jun 30, 2019, 1:49 am
#52
Join Date: Nov 2016
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 457
Jun 30, 2019, 2:05 am
#53
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sapporo, Japan
Programs: Junior Jet Club, Nando's Card 1 Red Chilli, Tesco Clubcard, BAEC Gold, TK M&S Elite
Posts: 520
Until Churchill is left thousands of miles from home because his favourite airline has oversold his flight and chosen him as the least valuable person, so worthy of being offloaded.
Turkeys should probably never vote for Christmas.
Turkeys should probably never vote for Christmas.
Jun 30, 2019, 2:31 am
#54
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: London, UK
Posts: 246
I have a flight in F from JFK this month and the buckets show as the following:
F1 A0 J9 C9 D8 R5 I2 W9 E9 T6 Y9 B9H9 K9 M8 L6 V3 S0 N0 Q0 O0 G9
As we are on a 2-4-1 obviously with all I read here and there, I got a bit worried. Is there any point switching to another flight in fear of being bumped/downgraded/delayed/whatever should overselling happen or is it completely pointless and that should be fine? I read some other threads but I still struggle to understand how much of a risk this is with the buckets showing as above.
Thank you in advance for your help!
F1 A0 J9 C9 D8 R5 I2 W9 E9 T6 Y9 B9H9 K9 M8 L6 V3 S0 N0 Q0 O0 G9
As we are on a 2-4-1 obviously with all I read here and there, I got a bit worried. Is there any point switching to another flight in fear of being bumped/downgraded/delayed/whatever should overselling happen or is it completely pointless and that should be fine? I read some other threads but I still struggle to understand how much of a risk this is with the buckets showing as above.
Thank you in advance for your help!
Jun 30, 2019, 2:48 am
#55
Join Date: Jun 2011
Programs: BAEC Gold, HHonors Gold, Marriot Bonvoy Gold, MeliaRewards Gold, Radisson Gold
Posts: 816
I suspect very few people - myself included - would actually say they are actually happy that it happens or that it occasionally means a customer is inconvenienced. Just that some people want to offer a narrower viewpoint based on the people it negatively impacts - whilst others accept a bigger picture view of the rationale for the practice and why, dare I say it, it does have some wider benefits.
And yes, I have been impacted by an oversold flight before - but it has only happened once (in many, many sectors), it was handled well, I was compensated and given a very acceptable re-route. All in all I was actually quite happy that it happened in the end.
Jun 30, 2019, 2:51 am
#56
Join Date: Nov 2016
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 457
That’s exactly my point - it works best for the overwhelming majority but unfortunately not quite for everybody all of the time.
Jun 30, 2019, 3:15 am
#57
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: London. Or a plane.
Programs: "Only" 50,000 TPs until BA GGLfL
Posts: 2,777
The reality is that overselling allows airlines to maximise loads- if the same number of people wanted to actually travel AND overselling were not allowed then airlines would have to fly more seats on every route (as load factors would fall). Every seat airlines fly causes environmental damage: as banning overselling would significantly increase the amount of empty seats the abolition of this “sharp practise” would simply make airlines worse polluters than they already are. this is one of those situations where society as a whole is better off with overselling, and there are a few private individuals who lose out.
And I’ve never been bumped from BA F after dozens of sectors. The best thing proactive you can do to minimise your bump risk for CWS’ list is to assign your seating (as getting status and acquiring children can be tricky at short notice!)
And I’ve never been bumped from BA F after dozens of sectors. The best thing proactive you can do to minimise your bump risk for CWS’ list is to assign your seating (as getting status and acquiring children can be tricky at short notice!)
Jun 30, 2019, 4:45 am
#58
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 181
Came across this and thought it would be interesting to link it here:
Why the controversial practice of overselling flights makes the world a better place
Why the controversial practice of overselling flights makes the world a better place
“When handled properly, selling more tickets for a flight than there are seats on the plane is rational,” I tweeted earlier this week. “And it is beneficial for passengers and the planet.”
Jun 30, 2019, 5:16 am
#59
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cambridge, UK
Programs: Mucci, BA GGL/CCR
Posts: 761
I too wish they would target some of us 'older lags' with such offers too! $800, a night in a decent hotel and a better seat the following day ought to be tempting to anyone without a tightly fixed itinerary I would have thought.
We're talking about the well-under 1% scenario, someone being denied passage, whereas no shows is pretty much 100% going to happen on longhaul. A lot more people are denied boarding simply by being late. In order to get rid of overbooking, the implications would be enormous and it ultimately only benefits those affluent enough to not care about the fare. It is interesting that we very rarely hear complaints about this on this forum, when every complaint tends to be well magnified.
For the situation last night in T7, I have heard from someone in JFK that "about a dozen" people accepted offers to stay over in the Hilton JFK with US$800 and an upgraded seat today. Agents tend to look out for students who would find this an attractive offer, so I doubt many people were complaining. I just wish they occasionally asked some older lags too, but they typically don't need to do that. Dozens more were upgraded to better seats or accepted moves / wanted moves to other services the same evening. I suspect the sum total would be very few if anyone was seriously put out, a dozen happy students, and an even happier BA revenue manager.
So long as this is handled professionally, overbooking is a positive thing to do.
For the situation last night in T7, I have heard from someone in JFK that "about a dozen" people accepted offers to stay over in the Hilton JFK with US$800 and an upgraded seat today. Agents tend to look out for students who would find this an attractive offer, so I doubt many people were complaining. I just wish they occasionally asked some older lags too, but they typically don't need to do that. Dozens more were upgraded to better seats or accepted moves / wanted moves to other services the same evening. I suspect the sum total would be very few if anyone was seriously put out, a dozen happy students, and an even happier BA revenue manager.
So long as this is handled professionally, overbooking is a positive thing to do.
Jun 30, 2019, 6:09 am
#60
Join Date: Feb 2009
Programs: Mucci, BA, Hilton.
Posts: 1,158