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-   -   787 SJC Cancellations (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1905836-787-sjc-cancellations.html)

BertieBadger Apr 25, 2018 3:47 pm


Originally Posted by kittarbitrary (Post 29683589)
So these cancellations are as the result of an inspection? That's not very reassuring at all!

I thought they were rotating planes and they were getting to each one in turn, which is why I was thinking they could do it with more forewarning.

I'm sure they are trying to manage it as well as possible with planned servicing but my understanding - happy to be corrected - is that they could need to withdraw one without much notice :(

But there are others around these parts who are more knowledgeable about such matters, so hopefully they can confirm that or not.

13901 Apr 25, 2018 3:55 pm


Originally Posted by kittarbitrary (Post 29683589)
So these cancellations are as the result of an inspection? That's not very reassuring at all!

I thought they were rotating planes and they were getting to each one in turn, which is why I was thinking they could do it with more forewarning.

I'm sorry, but how else would you know if something needs replacing or not? you can make an estimate of how many aircrafts, out of a fleet of 25, might be out of action and for how long, based on prior experience and what RR is telling you, but foresee that, I don't know, G-ZBKA will require both engines changed whilst G-ZBJB won't, without doing a boroscope, it's impossible.

The general yardstick is that BA will try and cancel as early as possible, barring obviously problems on the day.

Soupdragon62 Apr 25, 2018 3:56 pm

I fly this route a lot and I have not been affected yet, which I know it's not much consolation at all if it happens to you. My colleague, who it did affect, got plenty of notice (weeks) and was re-routed to SFO which was a bit of a pain as he departed from SJC which meant he couldn't use his car to get to the airport. A re-route to SFO isn't the end of the world other than the immigration scrum if you don't have global entry, and a little extra commute time if you are actually heading into San Jose.

kittarbitrary Apr 25, 2018 4:41 pm


Originally Posted by 13900 (Post 29683689)
I'm sorry, but how else would you know if something needs replacing or not?

Because surely there would be an inspection of all potentially affected planes immediately, and any problems resolved then, or the aircraft halted until it could be resolved. In fact I thought that was why they grounded planes in January. I didn't expect them to be flying without even having been inspected. Unless you're saying they're all affected and the ongoing inspections are just risk management and they're pulling flights when the damage passes a certain threshold.



My colleague, who it did affect, got plenty of notice (weeks)
That's good to know, thanks. Just looking at the schedules that I can see they only appear as cancelled the day of flight (or maybe the day before, after I've looked). I'm less then three weeks away now, so perhaps I am ok... at least on the way out!

hugolover Apr 25, 2018 5:01 pm

What about KUL..? I guess they would re-route via HKG or SIN for F Class or rebook to MH if they still have Dom P.

spongenotbob Apr 25, 2018 6:25 pm

How far in advance does BA normally publish the cancellations on BA279/BA278?

thanks!

olouie Apr 25, 2018 8:37 pm

I wonder if they are paying out EU261 claims.

13901 Apr 25, 2018 11:23 pm


Originally Posted by kittarbitrary (Post 29683839)
Because surely there would be an inspection of all potentially affected planes immediately, and any problems resolved then, or the aircraft halted until it could be resolved. In fact I thought that was why they grounded planes in January. I didn't expect them to be flying without even having been inspected. Unless you're saying they're all affected and the ongoing inspections are just risk management and they're pulling flights when the damage passes a certain threshold.

No.
The airlines do what is told to them by the Safety regulators, EASA in BA's case. EASA's latest Airworthiness Directive on the case is 2018-0086 and states the following. All bolding are mine.


An occurrence was reported where, following N2 vibration and multiple messages, the flight crew performed an engine in-flight shut-down (IFSD) and returned to the departure airport, landing uneventfully. The post-flight borescope inspection of the engine revealed an intermediate pressure turbine blade (IPTB) missing at the shank. Analysis shows that this kind of failure is due to sulphidation corrosion cracking. This condition, if not detected and corrected, could lead to IPTB shank release, possibly resulting in an IFSD and consequent reduced control of the aeroplane.
How to find this issue?


To address this potential unsafe condition, RR issued Alert NMSB Trent 1000 72-AJ575 to provide instructions for engine removal from service when any IPTB with a high level of sulphidation exposure is identified by corrosion fatigue life (CFL) model. Consequently, EASA issued AD 2017-0056 to require removal from service of certain engines, to be corrected in shop.
Since that AD was issued, prompted by further occurrences and analyses, it was decided that, to reduce the risk of dual IFSD, a new cyclic life limit must be applied to certain engines [...]
What do airlines need to do?


Required Action(s) and Compliance Time(s):

De-Pairing of Affected Engines:
(1) For an aeroplane that has two affected engines installed: Before both engines exceed their respective IPTB cyclic limit, as specified in Appendix 1 of the NMSB at Revision 2, or within 20 flight cycles after the effective date of this AD, whichever occurs later, remove one of the affected engines from the aeroplane.

Affected Engine Installation:
(2) After removal of an affected engine, as required by paragraph (1) of this AD, do not install that engine on an aeroplane, except within the limitations as specified in Section 3.A of the NMSB.

Terminating Action:
(3) Modification of an affected engine in accordance with the instructions of RR SB TRENT 1000 72-H818 constitutes terminating action

This is valid for:


Trent 1000-A, Trent 1000-C, Trent 1000-D, Trent 1000-E, Trent 1000-G, Trent 1000-H,
Trent 1000-AE, Trent 1000-CE, Trent 1000-A2, Trent 1000-C2, Trent 1000-D2, Trent 1000-E2,
Trent 1000-G2, Trent 1000-H2, Trent 1000-J2, Trent 1000-K2, Trent 1000-L2, Trent 1000-AE2 and Trent 1000-CE2 engines, serial numbers (ESN) as identified in Appendix 1 of the NMSB at Revision 2, except those that have embodied RR Service Bulletin (SB) TRENT 1000 72-H818 in service.
I don't have access to the RR NMSB, apologies, but I know the interval of inspections has been revised down. Hope this helps.

kittarbitrary Apr 25, 2018 11:52 pm

That really does sound like they should be able to pre-plan the cancellations to me. But never mind, they'll do what they do and we'll just have to wait and see about our flights.

flatlander Apr 26, 2018 1:13 am

The actions required in the Directive are based on cycles (one takeoff/landing is one cycle) and BA (or anyone else) cannot precisely predict aircraft cycles in the longer term. Consider if an aircraft has a (unpredictable) medical diversion and is very delayed on arrival at its destination. Because it diverted it now accumulated 2 cycles instead of the expected one to get to that destination. Meanwhile some other aircraft which was expected to rest overnight at LHR is quickly set up for use to cover the flight the first aircraft should be operating if it wasn't stuck at its destination due to crew rest requirements. The second aircraft also gets another cycle (or two cycles) that was not expected.

If they're both 787s and BA is already short of aircraft, then there might be a cancellation further in the future when the engine of one of those aircraft reaches its cycle limit in the Directive, the engine is taken off and can't be re-used on another aircraft until RR supply parts to fix it. BA might have to run their aircraft very close to the Directive's cycle limit in order not to have even more cancellations - no airline has a lot of spare aircraft to handle some of them going sick.

spongenotbob Apr 29, 2018 12:40 am

Looks like 279 is cancelled on Monday 30Apr:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...340Z/EGLL/KSJC

kittarbitrary Apr 29, 2018 12:51 am

BA278 is cancelled too. Maybe they are choosing Mondays as last Monday both 278 and 279 were cancelled.

Dubh Apr 29, 2018 1:06 am

Strange that sulphidation is such a life limiting factor on those IP blades. You can generally work around with coatings and temperatures to avoid it.

in saying that Jet A1 from certain countries has high sulphur content. Running the engine in a temperature sweet spot for type 2 corrosion might be something the design guys didn't factor correctly.

spongenotbob Apr 29, 2018 1:08 am

Interestingly, the AD referenced above (AD) only goes into effect on 01May.

So this Trent 1000 mess may be only getting started....

rapidex Apr 29, 2018 1:09 am


Originally Posted by spongenotbob (Post 29695088)
Interestingly, the AD referenced above (AD) only goes into effect on 01May.

So this Trent 1000 mess may be only getting started....

And wont be sorted this year.


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