Calum

I turned down a job for this very reason. If the employer thinks you only deserve Y then do they really value your employment? Even if it's the policy company wide, it shows how they see employees.

lorath

How can that be when you have no idea of the OP’s qualifications and experience or value to his employer.

Mayhaps you are mistaking the OP for a dumpster truck driver.

UTFB

For me it would depend on the work expected of you at the other end.

I've turned down jobs with Y travel policy but these were located in remote and often hazardous locations and involved spendng upto 28 days at a time working 12-14hr days 7 days per week. If I am expected to travel long-haul Y then get straight into 4 weeks of long shifts without a break I'd expect to be traveling in J, likewise at the other end on my way home for leave after 4 weeks.

moral_low_ground

All these people who think Y long haul is torture should get a life. I am just leaving JNB, plenty of poverty round here to show that all of us on this board are lucky to have what we have.

I have been flying Y everywhere with my US employer since the dotcom crash redefined our industry and the cost structure. Yes, plenty times it not "enjoyable" and I don't look forward to flying the way I did when J was the standard and I used to buy up to F at the airport.

TBH, you get used to it, you know what's coming and use what ever tricks you can to make it better. I am currently based in the Middle East. Flights to the US are always via UK on my employers time (I get a free day for the connection). Much better than 16 hours with EK. Anything under 10 hours I consider short haul. I only take day time flights if possible (obviously West Coast back to UK is an issue although you can fly thru the East Coast).

Given the 2K extra per month, I would grab it, you'll get used to Y in a short time period. Buying up to W for those night flights will seem a treat and before long you'll look forward to a J flight and appreciate it for what it is

Nicoolio

My experience with some broad knowledge is "the CEO always travels Y" is generally a blatant lie unless it means that he and probably a few others fly by private jet - where of course there is no first class. I've seen this fairy tale used several times - and to me it's the lie that bothers me. Or in other cases - yes, the CEO does travel Y -- on the LGA-DCA shuttle for 38 minutes.

One company I have a retainer with my agreement is they deduct the fare difference Y to J/F when i am traveling for them out of my monthly retainer and their corporate travel desk tickets it and i invoice them for less the difference that month. It makes it easy for them - easy for me - no confusion and no sneaking. I was just upfront when I started with them I don't fly Y and just like any negotiation we found a solution. Since the company is $15 billion + revenue - it shows that the old excuse "we are too big to make specific accommodations" is really either "we aren't going to do it for you" or "it's up to you to negotiate a deal you are happy with."

For some people 24k is a lot of money; for others not so much - depending on where OP is traveling - it may or may not cover his upgrade - but it would seem to at least cover a good bit of it - I would just make sure they are clear that they know OP is trying to upgrade.

I don't understand calling OP ingrate - That doesn't seem very nice or helpful - Most of my experience is there is flexibility at even big companies - they obviously don't like to advertise it - and if they had taken offense so far, they certainly wouldn't have offered an extra 2k per month to offset upgrading as the OP seems to indicate.

Dambus

If they are offering an extra 2k/pm post tax just for having to endure Y then they presumably are also offering decent equity based long term incentives?

If if yes then take the job, think of yourself as a true entrepreneur and your time in Y as a conscious investment in your company.

DorsetKnob

In the real world I would suggest the majority of business travelers are in Y. It clearly varies industry to industry, but many are Y only. The concept of negotiating a J only clause in my contract of employment, would result in any of my potential employers laughing me out of the office & withdrawing my job offer on the grounds of candidate stupidity! I sometimes get J on business but more often than not it's Y. I've done Manila from London for 3 days in Y & survived. I've even flown to Singapore from London on a Sunday arriving early Monday AM, gone to a meeting then flown back that night in Y. Again I didn't die.

Nicoolio

Good point -

Calchas

The job involves a fair amount of travel. It is eminently sensible to question the working conditions.

It's not much different to querying "I prefer to use an ergonomic keyboard at work for my wrists, is there any provision to enable that?" or "what is the work-from-home policy?" or "I prefer to work on Unix instead of Windows, is that possible?".

I agree that these questions shouldn't be the first thing you ask in a job interview but I would say you should have a good idea of the working environment before you quit your previous job.

If you as a candidate deliberately omit to discuss something important to you before signing on the dotted line, and then subsequently resign over it, you are wasting a lot of time for everyone involved.

Dambus

IAN-UK

If you have a flood of offers, all equally attractive except for travel policy, then you can afford to indulge your appetite for premium class travel.

Otherwise you'll come over as a tad precious for an organisation where even the top dog travels in economy.

If you are still prevaricating, unable to swallow the hardship/indignity of travelling in Y even after they've offered a substantial sweetner, then I imagine you are not the only one questioning your fit with their organisation.

fourspoons

I wouldn't base a decision solely on corporate travel policy. These policies can and do change on a very regular basis. Imagine you take another job because of this and then 3 months later a new CFO strolls in and changes everyone to Y only.

I suspect once you get your feet under the table at the new company you will find ways to work the policy to your liking in some fashion, depending on who approves your expenses and so on. Most corporate policies allow for some exceptions depending on the person travelling and the reason for travel. Of course, they are not going to tell you all the ways to game the system at interview stage. Heck, if someone was offering me an extra £24k net a year for my inconvenience I'd get a bus or walk if I had to.

Having said that, I did turn a very good job down based on the choices available on the company car scheme..

chris1979

very interesting question and comments.

Agree with Ian-UK: if you love your current job and/or have lots of other options, by all means make the travel policy the deciding factor.

but, short of the above, would i turn down a great job with excellent overall package (and another GBP24k post tax throw in to sweeten the Y only travel policy), unlikely (unless I had just won the lottery).

I am also not sure I buy the 'will they cut costs on other things like hotels' - sometimes this is about perceptions and driving culture. We adopted a '2nd class mail only' policy many years ago (as well as a 'no-travel-week' once a month) and whilst initially bemoaned as 'embarrassing' by some, it was about driving culture and I think, in hindsight, both policies were spot on. I am certainly aware of pretty senior people in Fintech or Google et al travelling in less comfort than your average accountant or consultant - not because the company can't afford it or skims on all expenses but because in a non-billable environment, costs are looked at differently.

Go for it. Or let me know where to send my CV!

Robcoh

This is a really interesting thread - I'm an HR consultant (US firm in the UK) and spend 70% of my time travelling (mainly SH) but our new policy just got announced and its only Y! I think our policy used to be fair W 6hrs+ and J 10hrs+. Under the old policy we were more than happy to travel on Sundays and land back Saturdays for no TOIL. Although most is SH, at least once or twice a month I'm heading to the US or Asia and flying in Y and being expected to go straight to the office is unpleasant.

I like the idea of being offered a cash incentive instead, however £2k doesn't really cut it - when a business class return to Manila (last minute) is £4k-5k, a Y seat is around £800. Unfortunately we can't book our own travel and I can't stay within one world all the time.

We as a team have decided that our "good will" has gone, we're only going to travel in working hours - this is going to annoy our management/clients but its the only option we really have - as "valued" employees it shows how much we're actually worth, and I hope isn't an indication of how the market is changing.

In all serious - its taught me that if I change jobs I should request the travel policy (but only once an offer is on the table!)

bisonrav

I've been through lots of policies, and was on Y only for a bit. There's only so far working to rule can take you, eventually it looks like petulance and anyway there will be people who will travel, or you'll be asked to meet by Skype and so on.

What annoys me more is the idea that my time is gifted to the business, evenings and weekends, with no quid pro quo. So I'm starting to insist on TOIL for weekends.