Originally Posted by golfmad
(Post 29871190)
The reason being that the tickets are in the names of the individuals not the travel department.
That is what I thought, but son was unsure. I knew if I posted here I would get the correct answer. |
BA Using Exceptional Weather to Deny EU261
I am at the point of issuing a letter of intent. I am pretty confident that BA “merged” our cancelled flight with an earlier one for convenience rather than due to genuine weather conditions. I now need to demonstrate that other flights to ORD that day operated normally. I did check that AA and UA flights as well as two BA flights arrived more or less on time at ORD and possibly Ae Lingus from Dublin. Can anyone advise on how to find details of those flights that I can use in the MCOL process. Once our flight was confirmed as cancelled we were booked on the same flight 24 hours later. However we could have flown home the same day with BA, AA or even UA. We could also have flown on Aer Lingus or been routed via another US airport all of which could have got us to LHR without delay so the 24 hour delay as purely of BA's making. Can anyone advise if I should offer both of these points to underpin my claim for EU261 compensation or concentrate on the strongest? Thanks for any help. |
Originally Posted by Definitas
(Post 29872452)
I am at the point of issuing a letter of intent. I am pretty confident that BA “merged” our cancelled flight with an earlier one for convenience rather than due to genuine weather conditions. I now need to demonstrate that other flights to ORD that day operated normally. I did check that AA and UA flights as well as two BA flights arrived more or less on time at ORD and possibly Ae Lingus from Dublin. Can anyone advise on how to find details of those flights that I can use in the MCOL process. Once our flight was confirmed as cancelled we were booked on the same flight 24 hours later. However we could have flown home the same day with BA, AA or even UA. We could also have flown on Aer Lingus or been routed via another US airport all of which could have got us to LHR without delay so the 24 hour delay as purely of BA's making. Can anyone advise if I should offer both of these points to underpin my claim for EU261 compensation or concentrate on the strongest? Thanks for any help. |
Originally Posted by Definitas
(Post 29872452)
Once our flight was confirmed as cancelled we were booked on the same flight 24 hours later. However we could have flown home the same day with BA, AA or even UA. We could also have flown on Aer Lingus or been routed via another US airport all of which could have got us to LHR without delay so the 24 hour delay as purely of BA's making. Can anyone advise if I should offer both of these points to underpin my claim for EU261 compensation or concentrate on the strongest? Thanks for any help.
Originally Posted by Definitas
(Post 29874942)
I would also appreciate any tips on what to include in a “skeleton “ description of events. Thanks
Always make all points in your favour. The judge can use their discretion to discard weaker lines of argument, but they cannot bring new lines of argument on to the table if no-one has mentioned them. The fact that (a) other airlines were operating and that (b) BA could have rerouted you but didn't and (c) BA has a joint business arrangement so it doesn't even cost them anything to do it - is in any event a connected package of related arguments anyway. |
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
(Post 29874980)
For the Skeleton - a one or two page bullet pointed, cross referenced, short paragraphs document which describes briefly the events and the legal points you are making - see post 7 above. You only need this formally when you get close to a hearing date, so it's not the first thing that needs to be done, but if you have an overwhelming case then presenting it early can show BA's legal team that you are serious, and you can amend the Skeleton after seeing their defence. Skeletons are not mandatory at these sorts of hearing but most judges would breath a sigh of relief if one ended up on their desk.
Always make all points in your favour. The judge can use their discretion to discard weaker lines of argument, but they cannot bring new lines of argument on to the table if no-one has mentioned them. The fact that (a) other airlines were operating and that (b) BA could have rerouted you but didn't and (c) BA has a joint business arrangement so it doesn't even cost them anything to do it - is in any event a connected package of related arguments anyway. |
Originally Posted by Definitas
(Post 29875032)
but have not had any reply to a registered letter I sent to Uxbridge a month ago.
Thereafter the basis of the action would appear to me: - convenience to airline by combining aircraft. If one aircraft could operate, then so could two. - insufficient resources to handle de-icing at LHR (a commercial choice) - other services ran normally - other options / routings could / should have been presented to you. Counting against you is the straightforward fact that this was some of the worst weather at LHR for several years and there was quite widespread disruption to LHR and other airports that day. So I wouldn't want to give the impression that your case is ovewhelming. |
Thanks once again for the advice. It pretty much underpins my thoughts. I am at the point where I am so annoyed by BA's fairly blasé brush off and their failure to even reply to my recorded delivery letter to answer the points that I raised that I have decided to go to MCOL happy in the knowledge that I could loose my money. I would hate myself if I just let it go whereas if I loose my court fee (or even get lumbered with some costs), I will feel happy that I tried and failed.
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~17 hour delay due to sensor fault / LHR noise restrictions / crew rest requirements
Hi everyone - my fiance and I have just had our first ever non-weather related delay, so I wanted to check a couple of things before putting in a compensation request. Apologies if these are basic questions, we've not been in this situation before! So, this is what happened: We were on BA 0877 from Tallinn to LHR, scheduled to depart at 21:25 on June 15th. Shortly after we got to the gate to board, the captain came to the gate and announced on the tannoy that there was a fault with one of the sensors on the plane, which an engineer was attempting to fix. We waited around for about an hour before the captain came back again to announce that the sensor fault had been repaired, but they now needed to do some tests to verify that the repair had been successful - this would involve running the engine, so they had to take the plane to a quiet part of the airport as they weren't allowed to do this at the gate. We got some refreshment vouchers after this and continued to wait until about 23:30 - at this point we got an announcement saying that we were to collect our bags and go to the check-in desks to arrange hotel accommodation if necessary. We were bussed to the hotel and arrived at about 1am, then at 12 noon on the 16th we were bussed back to the airport and finally flew out of Tallinn at 14:00. The captain made an announcement once we were on the plane, saying that they had managed to verify that the repair had been successful the previous evening, but by that time they wouldn't have been able to make it back to LHR before it closed due to noise restrictions (they had asked for permission to land late, but this was refused). They then had to wait at least 12 hours to give the crew the legally required 12 hours rest before we were able to fly. We arrived back into LHR at about 15:10 on the 16th. My questions are: 1. I've seen a couple of posts on this thread saying that it's best to wait about a week before putting in a compensation claim rather than doing it straight away, but I must have missed where the reason for this was explained. Could someone please tell me why it's better to wait? 2. I'm slightly concerned that BA will come back and say that the majority of the delay (LHR noise restrictions and crew rest requirements) was out of their control, and therefore no compensation is due. Do you think this seems like a clear-cut case, or should I be preparing for a fight? Thanks in advance for your help! |
Originally Posted by Fernweh
(Post 29875275)
~17 hour delay due to sensor fault / LHR noise restrictions / crew rest requirements
My questions are: 1. I've seen a couple of posts on this thread saying that it's best to wait about a week before putting in a compensation claim rather than doing it straight away, but I must have missed where the reason for this was explained. Could someone please tell me why it's better to wait? 2. I'm slightly concerned that BA will come back and say that the majority of the delay (LHR noise restrictions and crew rest requirements) was out of their control, and therefore no compensation is due. Do you think this seems like a clear-cut case, or should I be preparing for a fight? Thanks in advance for your help! I’d say the case itself is pretty much as straightforward as you’ll get - mechanical defect isn’t extraordinary, crew hours are within BA’s control so not extraordinary, and they fly into an airport with known restrictions on operating hours - so, again, not extraordinary. You shouldn’t have any issues with this one. |
Well firstly thank you for putting in all the key details and also for touching base here while the relevant information is still in the public domain. In particular you seem to have got a good description of what the captain said, which is strangely missing in many other cases here. The layout of the dispatch information is a bit haphazard if you are not used to it, but it does state that due to an operational delay (ZO) you were over 16 hours late.
DOBA877/15JUN I would hope this isn't controversial, the base cause was a technical error, there isn't a curfew at LHR (but there are cost implications) but crew hours is certainly a blocker. Still that isn't exceptional circumstances even if it can't be over-ridden.* OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * BA 877 -2 FR 15JUN18 CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL) TLL ESTIMATED TIME OF DEPARTURE 1400 LEFT THE GATE 1413 TOOK OFF 1424 DELAY ZO ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL 1514 LHR LHR AIRCRAFT LANDED 1509 ARRIVED 1516 *1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* BA 877 -2 FR 15JUN18 APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL TLL 2125 FR JCDRI/M YB/G 320 3:05 HKMLVNOQSGX/G LHR 2230 FR 3:05 COMMENTS- 1.TLL LHR - MEMBER OF ONEWORLD 2.TLL LHR - ARRIVES TERMINAL 5 3.TLL LHR - 9/ NON-SMOKING 4.TLL LHR - ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE 5.TLL LHR - CO2/PAX* 163.17 KG ECO, 163.17 KG PRE (*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR CONFIGURATION- 320 C 12 M 150 > The reason for holding back a bit is that if a claim gets to BA before the delay report gets into the system, the agents decline the claim since they can't see a reason to accept it. After a few days it becomes apparent what has happened and that once one person's claim is accepted, other claims tend to proceed quite quickly. This looks pretty much like a clear case to me, given what you have said,, so I don't think the second question really applies. However while your memory is fresh I would make a statement recalling all details and timings, exactly what was said by the captain and indeed other staff working with the flight. Date and time the statement and accumulate screenshots (e.g. BA.com - you must do this today). Just in case! |
Was on BA2036 MCO-LGW last night. Captain apologizes for the delay due to a tech fault.
VS scheduled to push back after us, but because of our tech delay, pushes and taxis ahead of us and gets airborne. Meantime, MCO stops departures on our and previous VS route due to thunderstorms. We eventually return to stand for more fuel and finally get going 2 hours + late. Result is 6 hour delay arriving in ABZ today. Had we pushed on time, we would also have been out ahead of the storms. Do you folks agree that EC261 is due? |
Originally Posted by w3andw4d
(Post 29875345)
We eventually return to stand for more fuel and finally get going 2 hours + late.
Result is 6 hour delay arriving in ABZ today. Had we pushed on time, we would also have been out ahead of the storms. Do you folks agree that EC261 is due? |
Thanks NWIFlyer and corporate-wage-slave, that makes sense. I'll wait until next weekend and put in a claim - I'll let you know how it goes!
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
(Post 29875310)
Well firstly thank you for putting in all the key details and also for touching base here while the relevant information is still in the public domain. In particular you seem to have got a good description of what the captain said, which is strangely missing in many other cases here. The layout of the dispatch information is a bit haphazard if you are not used to it, but it does state that due to an operational delay (ZO) you were over 16 hours late.
DOBA877/15JUN I would hope this isn't controversial, the base cause was a technical error, there isn't a curfew at LHR (but there are cost implications) but crew hours is certainly a blocker. Still that isn't exceptional circumstances even if it can't be over-ridden.* OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * BA 877 -2 FR 15JUN18 CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL) TLL ESTIMATED TIME OF DEPARTURE 1400 LEFT THE GATE 1413 TOOK OFF 1424 DELAY ZO ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL 1514 LHR LHR AIRCRAFT LANDED 1509 ARRIVED 1516 *1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* BA 877 -2 FR 15JUN18 APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL TLL 2125 FR JCDRI/M YB/G 320 3:05 HKMLVNOQSGX/G LHR 2230 FR 3:05 COMMENTS- 1.TLL LHR - MEMBER OF ONEWORLD 2.TLL LHR - ARRIVES TERMINAL 5 3.TLL LHR - 9/ NON-SMOKING 4.TLL LHR - ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE 5.TLL LHR - CO2/PAX* 163.17 KG ECO, 163.17 KG PRE (*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR CONFIGURATION- 320 C 12 M 150 > The reason for holding back a bit is that if a claim gets to BA before the delay report gets into the system, the agents decline the claim since they can't see a reason to accept it. After a few days it becomes apparent what has happened and that once one person's claim is accepted, other claims tend to proceed quite quickly. This looks pretty much like a clear case to me, given what you have said,, so I don't think the second question really applies. However while your memory is fresh I would make a statement recalling all details and timings, exactly what was said by the captain and indeed other staff working with the flight. Date and time the statement and accumulate screenshots (e.g. BA.com - you must do this today). Just in case! https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...8bd7d3acdd.jpg |
Originally Posted by Fernweh
(Post 29875656)
Sorry, one more question - could you tell me where you got the information you quoted above? It might be useful to have a screenshot of that from the original source as well, if it's something I can get access to. I've taken a screenshot of the Flight Status page below.
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