Specifically - no idea. The only thing the airline will say is that ATC in MAN caused the delay on Feb 11, and that the data is private. In the US, that data isn't private (as far as I can tell). In MAN It could have been a ground stop or who knows - airline won't divulge what it is basing its extraordinary circumstances determination on outside of stating "ATC." In the US, one can find what I link to below via the FAA website. Those data show nothing going on at the arrival airport anywhere near the scheduled arrival time. I was hoping for a UK website (or something) where I could get similar info about MAN for Feb 11.
Database Results Maybe it's user error but KARFA's link didn't get me to what I was looking for -- Thanks all Cheers -
Originally Posted by thegrailer
(Post 29473019)
Hello -
I'm here with EC261/2004 questions b/c it's a UK-type question and I am hoping someone here has some info :) A couple of ATC questions 1. Is UK ATC data proprietary? The airline states it has "secret" (private) ATC data and that data proves extraordinary circumstances. The airline stated that it would provide the data to CAA just not to the passenger. 2. Follow up to 1 --- US FAA ATC data can be found online, does the UK provide similar data? To sum up, I am trying to get Feb 11 ATC data for MAN. Is that possible? Thanks Cheers
Originally Posted by KARFA
(Post 29474107)
what is the specific issue you are trying to look at? There is quite a lot of information here, including historical information https://www.public.nm.eurocontrol.in...pec/index.html if you click on “tactical update”at the top of the centre column you should get a pop up with a history tab for you to check 11 February if that’s of use. |
Hypothetical / per-emptive question on EU261 - but not the compensation aspect!
I am 100% going to miss my connection for DUB-LHR-HEL today, and probably marginal at this stage for the last AY flight of the day - doors still to close, and it’s in less than 2hrs 20mins (with de-icing, terminal transfer etc. involved). Hopefully things will work out and BA will have rebooked me on that proactively, and I make it - but if not the next flight basically means I’d have 2 hours in the airport, so trip pointless Question is, have people had much luck with BA on the re-routing at a later date approach part way through the trip? Have BA insisted (can they?) on same class availability? My return was to LHR anyway so I’d be quite happy to fly the remaining LHR-HEL-LHR next weekend instead. Alternative seems to be a full refund after bailing out in London, or theoretically (but would be somewhat taking the P) to demand a hotel room and a flight back to Dublin... I’ll be be out the excess if I abandon on my non-refundable hotel room in Helsinki, but not much I can do about that ETA - and now some eejit hasn’t shown up having checked-in a bag... |
Originally Posted by lorcancoyle
(Post 29480721)
Question is, have people had much luck with BA on the re-routing at a later date approach part way through the trip? Have BA insisted (can they?) on same class availability?
|
Originally Posted by armouredant
(Post 29480807)
I feel like if you explain that visiting HEL for two hours isn't the reason you bought the ticket, I'd like to think BA might push your return flights back proportionately, too. If not, this is certainly a job for your travel insurance.
ah well, the cost of RFS and £35 insurance excess still gets me the 40TPs and I avoid -15c temperatures in HEL I feel sorry for the crew - they were supposed to be off to MIA put got moved to the Polar Express instead (have been overhearing references to bikinis and flip-flops and colleagues shunted off to Calgary having packed for slightly warmer climes...) |
Originally Posted by thegrailer
(Post 29474404)
Specifically - no idea. The only thing the airline will say is that ATC in MAN caused the delay on Feb 11, and that the data is private. In the US, that data isn't private (as far as I can tell). In MAN It could have been a ground stop or who knows - airline won't divulge what it is basing its extraordinary circumstances determination on outside of stating "ATC." In the US, one can find what I link to below via the FAA website. Those data show nothing going on at the arrival airport anywhere near the scheduled arrival time. I was hoping for a UK website (or something) where I could get similar info about MAN for Feb 11.
Database Results Maybe it's user error but KARFA's link didn't get me to what I was looking for -- Thanks all Cheers - But, none of this matters. If you have made a claim and it has been denied, you have two options: drop it or pursue it. Whether at CEDR or in small claims (telephone hearings available in the UK), it will be for BA to prove an extraordinary circumstance, not for you to disprove. You are wasting your time on a wild goose chase. Send a letter before action (forms on the MCOL website) with a specific demand and leave it at that. Unfortunately, while the forms are helpful, as a US resident, you won't have access to MCOL. But, a telephone hearing will be just as good. |
Great service from GGL line just now. When I landed I could see that I’d been automatically rebooked - 1.45 in the ground tomorrow before return... Called GGL line and they said that clearly didn’t make sense for me so moved the LHR-HEL-LHR legs out a couple of weeks, and I got the AY Saturday morning flight as well. So saves me from queuing up at LHR and saves them a hotel room (I’m good to just leave)
(and it was answered within seconds - I’m still sat at the airbridge waiting to get off!) Overall quite happy with that, more time in HEL, when it’s warmer, and I’m only out a small amount of cash on the non-refundable hotel tonight. (Disembarking from the rear steps, onto busses when we’re at gate 22 in T5A is irritating though - and 23 is free too) |
When a flight is cancelled, PAX have the right according Article 5 to Assistance (Art. 8) and compensation (Art. 7). Within Article 8 they can choose for either re-routing of a refund. If a passengers chooses for the refund, are they still eligible for compensation? The regulation suggests that compensation is due irrespective of the 'choice' in Article 8, however it complicates the fact that the amount due depends on the delayed arrival time with respect to the original, cancelled flight.
So if a PAX chooses for a refund, can he still claim compensation which is then the full amount? |
Follow up on MCOL. Does one have to be a UK resident or a UK citizen? I can be in the UK to appear in court if needed.
Thanks for the ATC info It is the pursue option -
Originally Posted by Often1
(Post 29480931)
Aggregate data for MAN is available on FlightRadar24 as well as other databases. No different for UK than for US. Specific communications between MAN ATC and BA regarding your flight are non-public just as they are in the US unless someone recorded them at the time.
But, none of this matters. If you have made a claim and it has been denied, you have two options: drop it or pursue it. Whether at CEDR or in small claims (telephone hearings available in the UK), it will be for BA to prove an extraordinary circumstance, not for you to disprove. You are wasting your time on a wild goose chase. Send a letter before action (forms on the MCOL website) with a specific demand and leave it at that. Unfortunately, while the forms are helpful, as a US resident, you won't have access to MCOL. But, a telephone hearing will be just as good. |
Originally Posted by thegrailer
(Post 29481613)
Follow up on MCOL. Does one have to be a UK resident or a UK citizen? I can be in the UK to appear in court if needed.
Thanks for the ATC info It is the pursue option - |
Just had LBA to LHR cancelled so getting the train instead. Was travelling in CE, would BA refund a 1st class ticket? Will they also refund taxi from LBA to Leeds train station?
|
Originally Posted by AdBoy
(Post 29473293)
Does anyone know the latest on crew sickness away from base? Davies v BA seems to be a very clear case/precedent but then I'm confused by this case: Sudden illness constitutes ?extraordinary circumstances? for the purposes of Regulation 261/2004 Kennedys and also this one: https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...ensation-claim
|
Originally Posted by SinoBritAsia
(Post 29473464)
BA31 to Hong Kong will be almost 4 hours late today - Thursday - flown by G-XLEF from Los Angeles. The delay seems to stem from the outbound LAX flight from LHR going out almost 6 hours late on Tuesday.
In these circumstances, is the knock-on effect from weather enough to be considered extraordinary circumstances/weather for BA to say no to EC261? |
Originally Posted by KLflyerRalph
(Post 29481327)
When a flight is cancelled, PAX have the right according Article 5 to Assistance (Art. 8) and compensation (Art. 7). Within Article 8 they can choose for either re-routing of a refund. If a passengers chooses for the refund, are they still eligible for compensation? The regulation suggests that compensation is due irrespective of the 'choice' in Article 8, however it complicates the fact that the amount due depends on the delayed arrival time with respect to the original, cancelled flight.
So if a PAX chooses for a refund, can he still claim compensation which is then the full amount? |
Originally Posted by thegrailer
(Post 29481613)
Follow up on MCOL. Does one have to be a UK resident or a UK citizen? I can be in the UK to appear in court if needed.
Thanks for the ATC info |
Originally Posted by Ajm1987
(Post 29483749)
Just had LBA to LHR cancelled so getting the train instead. Was travelling in CE, would BA refund a 1st class ticket? Will they also refund taxi from LBA to Leeds train station?
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