Peter79

I'm flying to Rome late next year and looking for recommendations on which airline to use, flying in business class. I've done some research and come up with the following options:

BA connecting LHR
AF connecting CDG
LH connecting FRA
VS connecting LHR (flying BA LHR to FCO)
AC connecting YYZ

This will be the first time I've flown any of the above airlines and the first time in business. In every scenario I'm looking for a long layover to I can visit an arrivals lounge between flights. For the sake of this discussion, let's assume price won't factor in because I'm going to book far enough in advance etc. I'm looking for the most pleasant experience amongst these options.

Thank you in advance for your time and suggestions.

orbitmic

Welcome to Flyertalk Peter79! That's an exciting trip and I'm sure you'll get plenty of contradictory information of who to go with! The AF flight that you mention is actually operated by DL on a 777. That's easily what I would choose out of the options that you mention, in part because I find the seats very comfortable and by far the best of the options that you mention in my view (followed by VS and then by BA window seats only), and in part because at CDG (same would go with FRA with LH) you won't have to go through security again when transiting from FCO whilst you'd have to reclear security both times if going via LHR (on BA or VS). What is more, because you clear immigration on transit (again, through both CDG and FRA), you will arrive into FCO as a domestic passenger which will be faster.

Note that if you chose BA, you would need to pay if you wanted to pre-assign your seats on the long haul unless you have status with Oneworld or are on a very expensive full fare ticket. You will be allowed to choose your seat for free only on the LHR-FCO vv.

corporate-wage-slave

Welcome to Flyertalk Peter79, welcome in particular to the British Airways forum, though it may be that you will also need to check a few of the other forums along the way. But this forum is particularly useful due to the number of contributors and the breadth of their experiences.

There are actually quite a few other routes than the ones you mentioned, if you don't mind mixing airlines - airline alliances make that a fairly painless experience these days. So for example Alaska to PHL and then AA to FCO, to take one of very many options. A purely AA routing is also possible via CLT, which I would particularly recommend on the return due to it being one of the best entry points into the USA. And of course these airline alliances allow you potentially to have one route out and another back.

However by the sounds of it you want a good connection experience and some good lounges to use at the connection point. And in that respect BA is a good option, it's all in one building, the connection experience now has been greatly improved and you can have access to several airside lounges (and one landside one if you prefer) for this trip. CDG is also much improved on a few years back but it is still a 2E to 2F connection, which isn't too bad, but it's definitely 2 buildings and the lounges aren't as good as LHR. FRA - well personally I detest transferring at this airport, it does have merit in terms of the comprehensiveness of routes, but for me it's not a good experience. Lufthansa's lounges there are on a par with BA, however. VS will involve a building change at LHR, but some people love their business class product. Probably helps being under 30 years old though! Toronto? Well it's big merit is that you get a long flight to Rome, but I suspect the Maple Leaf lounges won't cut the mustard compared to the European options.

Then we need to consider the aircraft, and this is where the date becomes relevant: at the moment BA are running 777s down to SEA, and in business class this doesn't work very well. It's a personal thing but the best BA Club World products are in my view the A380, the refurbished 747s (Super J) and the 787 fleets. And on some dates BA is running the refurbished 747s to SEA, in which case Upper Deck 747 on the Super J remains one of the best business class products around, in my view. Doubtless there will be some different opinions posted here before too long.

So in short, if it was me I would be booking a BA 747 Upper Deck from SEA (or perhaps the A380 from Vancouver) to FCO. My second choice would perhaps be an AA routing via CLT.

Peter79

Thank you @orbitmic, very helpful info on customs, I definitely didn't know that.

Would it change your recommendation knowing that AF is returning to SEA? I found an article online announcing their comeback which prompted me to rethink my choice of carrier. I've heard that AF's food and lounge is excellent. I can't post the link to the article yet, not enough posts to thread or I'm too new to FlyerTalk.

orbitmic

It depends on the plane. AF seat on planes equipped with their newest 'BEST' cabin (now on almost all of their 787 and 777 planes) is excellent, however, their J seats on unrefurbished planes (notably 330s and 380s) are mediocre. The soft product is indeed much better on AF compared to BA, VS, and LH (with the exception of the BA flights between LHR and JFK which have a new excellent onboard service). AF food and drink are better as are amenity bags, and I prefer the AF onboard entertainment (some people might prefer BA's and VS's which are more 'mainstream' Hollywood blockbusters. AF has some of those, but they also have a much more interesting - in my view - selection of artsy and independent movies - think Sundance festival stuff, European movies, etc.

The CDG lounges have improved quite a lot and I personally prefer the CDG 2E lounges to the BA Galleries Club lounges (though I get to use the BA CCR which is much much better, Galleries First is better too). For example, the AF 2E M lounge has hot food all day whilst BA galleries club no longer has in between meal times. The better lounge of your list if the VS clubhouse at LHR but you'd only get access before your LHR-SEA segment. One thing I like much better about the CDG lounges is that you are far more likely to have a treatment (massage, etc) if you want compared to the LHR BA lounges where it is excruciatingly difficult to get one unless you fly F and can pre-book them (though again, even as a CCR cardholder flying F, I have frequently not been able to). AF lounge showers and lounge toiletries are also a lot better as are VS's to a lesser extent. AF lounges have significantly better wines, Champagne, and tea selections than Galleries lounges but VS Clubhouse and Galleries lounges have faster wifi. None of those lounges have a big selection of US newspapers or magazines but of course ,in the BA lounge you'll have a lot more British papers whilst AF lounges have more French and international papers. LH probably has the least literature and showers are on par with BA's (ie poor) and well below AF and VS.

In terms of transfers, while I like LH least, it is arguably the easiest. In most cases, you will not have to reclear security in either direction and it is the only version where you will stay within the same building. BA is within the same terminal but it is effectively going to be different buildings/concourses in 95% of cases for a SEA-FCO connection as the LHR-FCO // FCO-LHR have >90% chance to leave from and arrive at terminal 5A whilst your LHR-SEA // SEA-LHR flights have 90%+ chances to arrive at terminal 5B or terminal 5C. You can either take an airside train between the concourses or walk through a longish underground tunnel. The situation is very similar at CDG except that it is 100% instead of 95%: your CDG-FCO // FCO-CDG flights will arrive at/leave from terminal 2F and your CDG-SEA // SEA-CDG flights will arrive at/leave from terminal 2E from the K, L, or M gates. The walk from 2F to 2E L gates is very short; 2F to 2E K gates is more similar to BA T5A to T5C, and for 2F to 2E M you would have to take the little train. There are busses too if you do not like walking except for 2E L has this would really not make sense.

On the whole, whilst I personally tend to fly BA more often than AF because they treat me better with my status than AF does and because routings work for me, I do find the AF J experience better and classier than the BA one. VS is ok on O/D but connections mean changing airlines and terminal which is a pain. I'm personally not keen on either LH as an airline or FRA as an airport.

Jagboi

Be careful if you use AC, as I believe the Toronto-Rome flight on Rouge, which is their low cost carrier. It's quite a different product from AC mainline and almost universally hated on the AC forum.

For flights to Europe, I prefer the long portion to be the first sector, make a connection in Europe and have a short flight after. That gives you the most sleeping time on the overnight flight, and that's the big advantage of business class, is being able to sleep better overnight. I quite dislike doing a connection to the east coast, and then going across the Atlantic as it adds quite a bit of time, and the flight across the ocean isn't really long enough to get any useful sleep. Sometimes I have purposely backtracked to YVR to get a longer flight to LHR.

Peter79

Thank you @corporate-wage-slave, very good info on terminals esp. given I've not passed through LHR, CDG or FRA. I was under the impression that non-US carriers were typically a bit nicer in J than their US counterparts which is why I chose the routes I did.

It didn't occur to me to look into which planes are being used on SEA routes, so thank you for highlighting that for me.

safari ari

Air France is restarting service to Seattle March 2018, so if you are booking something for later next year, it will be a AF operated flight. There will be two flights one on DL and one on AF SEA-CDG. Additionally, the AF flight will be on a 77L, so it will have their best J seat. More options.

Ancient Observer

My personal view is that if I can avoid CDG, I will avoid it. I have had bad experiences there in the past. If there is a whiff of an Industrial dispute, avoid the place. At least most of the lhr staff speak English.
As to flights, I rather like VS and would personally give it preference over BA. However, what would you then do with VS airmiles?

orbitmic

Then i'd recommend AF even more strongly!

orbitmic

Doing at least 10 transits at CDG a year and many more at LHR, I must say that I have had a far higher occurrence of problems at the latter in the past 2-3 years (though earlier in 2017 there was an annoying passport control situation at CDG for a couple of months). Note I have fast track at both and people who don't might have different experiences.

rossmacd

I think you have a slightly outdated view of CDG. The airport has greatly improved (especially for connecting passengers). And I have yet to have an issue to communicating with anyone at CDG in English, although my French is strong enough to get by without concern.

Peter79

Can't I earn DL miles flying on VS?

BrianDromey

Another option would be the new Aer Lingus (EI) Service via Dublin. The EI business cabin has excellent food and the majority of seats are Aisle-access. There is a small arrivals facility at DUB, but the main lounge also offers Showers. Pre-clearance at DUB means you arrive back into SEA as a domestic passenger.

There are are two drawbacks
1) The SEA flight isn’t daily
2) The intra-EU flights are one-class Service with buy-on-board and no business class seating (I.e. no blacked middle like BA, AF or LH) - but you will be seated close to the front.

Nicoolio

I don't think it has been mentioned, unless you have OW Emerald or Sapphire status you will have to pay to choose your BA seats in advance. I just booked two tickets on BA costing over $11,000 and BA wanted around $100-$150 to per seat per segment to get an advanced seat assignment x 2 it would have cost me around $1,000 extra for seats - I am connecting Long Haul to Long Haul. Luckily I have AA status and so after I was done, I changed to my AA number and got the seats for free. I don't believe it mentions in any prominent way that you have to pay for business class seat assignments. I knew the policy in advance, but was surprised even middle seats - the worst BA has - also carried a price tag. I was thinking only the windows and aisle were at a fee. Anyway, something to consider although you did mention not caring about price.

In terms of lounge experience, I think only VS for business class is anything exceptional - although you would only get access flying LHR-SEA. AA is improving its international lounges - they are now open in ORD and JFK if you can connect via either.

As you don't seem committed to a mileage program, I would probably base my decision on price. You may end up finding significant differences As a non-status business class passenger, I don't think any of the airlines you mentioned standout, and in fact, if UA's EWR Polaris Lounge is open by the time you plan to travel, it might be worth a go.

It's also worth checking advance purchase F fares which depending on your dates, can be competitive ex-SEA with business class - and in that case if you can snag a good F fare on LH or AF, that would be a nice way to fly.