nufnuf77

Original poster

Tobias-UK

I think you are misunderstanding, in order to successfully proceed under S75 the OP MUST establish his claim against BA. AMEX have rejected the claim because the OP has failed to demonstrate he has a valid claim against BA. The burden of proof is with the OP, he must prove his claim and its value.

nufnuf77

I am not sure we are on the same page Tobias-UK, to me this is reasonably clear cut that it would seem there is a claim, as service was not delivered as purchased. I work in credit card business and S75 is something that I oversee from credit perspective, and whilst I might not be familiar with minutiae of this I would certainly believe this is claimable, as cc is jointly liable and OP does not have to make a claim against BA. This is the view of financial ombudsman, as referenced in ruling 86/08 here:http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...mer-credit.htm

Some useful reference for OP:
http://help.barclaycard.co.uk/brochu...ction-75-claim
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/sho...your-purchases

Tobias-UK

You are definitely misunderstanding. The OP MUST prove his claim against the service provider, he must prove his claim, how much he is owed and he must establish the service provider's legal liability for the claim. The OP has failed to do that and that is why AMEX has rejected the S75/chargeback application.

nufnuf77

At this point I will leave the discussion because we are not going to resolve it here anyway, but my opinion differs.

S75 does not require what you mention to the extent it would appear, and I am reasonably confident that should he claim under S75 rather than chargeback (2 different things), he will get some reasonable amount at the end, either immediately or via escalation to financial ombudsman. I know we have paid claims of similar nature though not exactly the same...

Tobias-UK

There is no doubt S75 applies to the transaction, you are just misunderstanding the evidential requirements necessary to prove the OP is entitled to compensation. The OP MUST PROVE how much BA owe him, he MUST PROVE that BA are liable for the amount he is seeking, he MUST PROVE BA have breached the contract or otherwise failed to provide the service paid for. The burden of proof is with the OP.

The OP is best advised to go to CEDR, if he's not satisfied with the outcome he is entitled to issue county court procedings against BA and Amex - either way the OP MUST PROVE his claim. At this moment he hasn't established what amount of compensation he is entitled to.

beetlebum

Chaps. Amex told me that I HAVE proved the value and the reason for the complaint. But cannot continue it was they have classes the seat as a 'service' issue, and therefore argued I cannot claim for this despite ba admitting that they gave me a broken unsafe seat. Solicitor next. This is ridiculous.

Tobias-UK

Exactly what value (amount) have Amex told you you have proven? How have they provided this information to you?

beetlebum

Hi Tobias - I understand the point you are about to make - I originally claimed for the company.plate return trip. This was the amount that amex advised me to log. Their systems can log 100% of the amount, then they work with the card holders and the merchant to find a more appropriate amount. However in this case after some considerable time amex have told.me that they cannot take on the claim as this is considered a 'service' issue.

BA admitted tof me in writing that there was a problem, that the engineers confirmed the seat was broken. But only value this at 100£. My problem is that I believe this is not appropriate compensation and want to find a reasonable compromise.

LTN Phobia

Was it possible for the crew to manually adjust the seat so that it can be put flat, and did the crew oblige when you asked for the seat to be put in a bed mode, if the seat could be put that way manually?

Just to put things in perspective, I received 4,000 M&M miles and a box of chocolate for a completely failed seat in J (this was paid for in cash, although it should not make any difference whether it was paid for in cash or miles as the impact of failure is the same) long haul on Swiss. It was not manually adjustable at all and stuck in an upright position as well as being completely rock hard (as it is air-inflated and the mechanism failed, it was effectively a cloth-covered metal seat) and I asked to be downgraded to Y, which was unsuccessful as they had 1 or 2 spare seats in Y but they could not find it because people moved seats. I spent much of the overnight flight standing in the galley because the seat was too uncomfortable to sit in.

The consequence of it? I simply have not flown in Swiss long haul J since, as it was not the only broken J seat on the aircraft (as well as there being more broken one in the other direction), which to me indicated that the risk of failure for those particular seats was too big for me to bear in the future (I'd still happily book to fly their F). I did not consider it worth my while in terms of time taken to take any other action, beyond writing to complain about the lack of spare pillows and blankets to pad out the uncomfortable seat so that I could at least sit there.

mikeyfly

I'd go through the key "selling" points from BA.com and attribute % and £££s s of what you paid - accepting what you had against what you didn't:

your own private, spacious suite
a fully flat bed with mattress and duvet
delicious and indulgent dining
access to luxurious lounges and spa treatments
exclusive and attentive service

Tobias-UK

Ah, when I read your first post today I thought there might have been an opportunity for you to have an additional go at Amex but upon reading the follow up post it appears not. I'm afraid you are back to square one, proving/establishing the VALUE of your claim.

Amex are not clear of this, their liability remains notwithstanding it being a service issue. BA failed to provide the service you paid for and so Amex (as this is a credit card transaction) is still jointly and severally liable for whatever amount of compensation you are entitled to. The problem? You have still not established the value of your claim.

CEDR may be an option, but given BA's and Amex's refusal to negotiate a settlement I suspect this case will only be resolved through the county court. Establishing liability appears straightforward, establishing the value of your claim, less so.

Given the amount of bad press BA is attracting just now, have you considered contacting one of the consumer help columns in a national newspaper? I'm sure they'd be very interested in this type of case. There's also BBC's Watchdog.

LostAntipod

"Which" magazine are also awake to BA's declining service levels and "flexible" approach to their EU261 obligations, and if you are a member, it is possible to get legal advice as well as the publicity/consumer advocate effect. Based on last weekend at BA, and Which's stamina for a long-running campaign against Hoover dryers that catch fire, I expect a Which crusade against BA in 3.....2.....1.....

LondonCanuck

There will be some interesting DM comments for sure... "First Class seat not functioning, champagne had to be consumed in a sitting position"... It seems like DM readers can't stand anyone who flies higher cabin than Y...