Broken First Seat
Apr 2, 2017, 2:39 am
#167
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: London
Posts: 344
I don't disagree, but in my very limited experience credit card companies do seem to go for the jugular on this sort of thing. I disputed £60 of a hotel booking for a hotel stay of about £400 once. I only asked for £60; Amex got the entire stay refunded.
Apr 2, 2017, 3:38 am
#168
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: BA Exec Silver
Posts: 64
I don't think you are home and dry, I would certainly not spend that card refund just yet.
I don't really understand the need to charge back 100% rather than 50% of ticket price, since it was a return flight. Don't know whether that was
a)because no mechanism to charge back other than 100% with your bank
b)you were wanting to provoke a response + reaction from BA
c)you were "greedy" and in anycase can't change your mind later and increase the amount
Chargeback for a partially delivered service is not as straight forwards as for physical items, paid for but either never provided or faulty and returned
Payments for a service, rather than goods, which is what flights, hotel rooms are, is still delivered to some lesser extent than customer wishes even when not perfect so provider may argue/defend their position with your bank that fully amount not refundable.
The provider, in this case BA, then assigns/argues the value of what was provided satisfactory and partially. I am sure BA can easily and sucessfully argue 50% is not refundable as only one segment affected of outbound/inbound flight.
The real issue is apportioning a value to the problem half of the ticket. Even with a broken seat, the flight got you from A-B etc so had some value, even if you state you preferred not to fly and BA staff fooled you into using seat.
I can not see BA letting this slide, and expect BA to follow up. If you'd claimed only 50% refund maybe BA would have let slide, consequently I see BA chasing not just 50% attributable to good leg, but also a proportion of price paid for the seat broken leg.
I don't really understand the need to charge back 100% rather than 50% of ticket price, since it was a return flight. Don't know whether that was
a)because no mechanism to charge back other than 100% with your bank
b)you were wanting to provoke a response + reaction from BA
c)you were "greedy" and in anycase can't change your mind later and increase the amount
Chargeback for a partially delivered service is not as straight forwards as for physical items, paid for but either never provided or faulty and returned
Payments for a service, rather than goods, which is what flights, hotel rooms are, is still delivered to some lesser extent than customer wishes even when not perfect so provider may argue/defend their position with your bank that fully amount not refundable.
The provider, in this case BA, then assigns/argues the value of what was provided satisfactory and partially. I am sure BA can easily and sucessfully argue 50% is not refundable as only one segment affected of outbound/inbound flight.
The real issue is apportioning a value to the problem half of the ticket. Even with a broken seat, the flight got you from A-B etc so had some value, even if you state you preferred not to fly and BA staff fooled you into using seat.
I can not see BA letting this slide, and expect BA to follow up. If you'd claimed only 50% refund maybe BA would have let slide, consequently I see BA chasing not just 50% attributable to good leg, but also a proportion of price paid for the seat broken leg.
If this does change, or I get an update, then I will try to let you know.
Apr 2, 2017, 6:53 pm
#169
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Amsterdam, Asia, UK
Programs: IHG RA (Spire), HH Diamond, MR Platinum, SQ Gold, KLM Gold, BAEC Gold
Posts: 5,072
Great point, very assertively made. Simple answer: I could only dispute 100% of the charge with the cc company. The cc company then advise me of any adjustments suggested by the merchant, in this case BA.
If this does change, or I get an update, then I will try to let you know.
If this does change, or I get an update, then I will try to let you know.
You are no doubt aware of compensation BA historically offered pre-Cruz for a broken first seat (usually Avios), and BA should not be allowed to argue and win that issue is worth less now.
Personally, i'd have no issues with you sticking it to BA for a 100% refund due to BA's intransigence and insulting final offer, it would serve BA right. Alas I just can't see that full refund not being sucessfully challenged by BA .
Apr 2, 2017, 9:30 pm
#170
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: BA bronze, Aeroplan peon
Posts: 4,746
A quick question came to me from the options at the beginning of the thread:
Suppose the OP had discovered the broken seat upon boarding and given the flight was full with no other seat available; he decides to voluntarily offload himself. Would EC261 compensation apply? Or would it only apply if he was IDB'd?
Similarly, is BA under any obligation to rebook him onto a later service, or is he basically on his own mid journey?
Suppose the OP had discovered the broken seat upon boarding and given the flight was full with no other seat available; he decides to voluntarily offload himself. Would EC261 compensation apply? Or would it only apply if he was IDB'd?
Similarly, is BA under any obligation to rebook him onto a later service, or is he basically on his own mid journey?
Apr 2, 2017, 9:56 pm
#171
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, QF Platinum, BAEC Silver, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 10,780
A quick question came to me from the options at the beginning of the thread:
Suppose the OP had discovered the broken seat upon boarding and given the flight was full with no other seat available; he decides to voluntarily offload himself. Would EC261 compensation apply? Or would it only apply if he was IDB'd?
Similarly, is BA under any obligation to rebook him onto a later service, or is he basically on his own mid journey?
Suppose the OP had discovered the broken seat upon boarding and given the flight was full with no other seat available; he decides to voluntarily offload himself. Would EC261 compensation apply? Or would it only apply if he was IDB'd?
Similarly, is BA under any obligation to rebook him onto a later service, or is he basically on his own mid journey?
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...l#post28012609
Apr 2, 2017, 11:06 pm
#172
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: BA bronze, Aeroplan peon
Posts: 4,746
May 20, 2017, 8:38 am
#173
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: BA Exec Silver
Posts: 64
Good Afternoon guys - an update from me.
AMEX today sent a letter saying that they have been forced to reinstate the flight charges as BA have not communicated with them about my depute.
Absolutely bizarre.
BA have managed to overturn AMEX' efforts to resolve this by not simply not responding to AMEX requests for information about the flight and my depute. AMEX believe that the charge should not stand on my account but cannot help me.
Taking some time to re quaint myself with this thread and some of my legal eagles. Terribly disappointing and shambolic BA.
AMEX today sent a letter saying that they have been forced to reinstate the flight charges as BA have not communicated with them about my depute.
Absolutely bizarre.
BA have managed to overturn AMEX' efforts to resolve this by not simply not responding to AMEX requests for information about the flight and my depute. AMEX believe that the charge should not stand on my account but cannot help me.
Taking some time to re quaint myself with this thread and some of my legal eagles. Terribly disappointing and shambolic BA.
May 20, 2017, 8:46 am
#175
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: DUB/ORD/SIN/PVG
Programs: EI AerClub Concierge, EK Gold, BA Gold, BD Gold (Retired), HHonors Diamond, Bonvoy Lifetime Gold
Posts: 2,923
Good Afternoon guys - an update from me.
AMEX today sent a letter saying that they have been forced to reinstate the flight charges as BA have not communicated with them about my depute.
Absolutely bizarre.
BA have managed to overturn AMEX' efforts to resolve this by not simply not responding to AMEX requests for information about the flight and my depute. AMEX believe that the charge should not stand on my account but cannot help me.
Taking some time to re quaint myself with this thread and some of my legal eagles. Terribly disappointing and shambolic BA.
AMEX today sent a letter saying that they have been forced to reinstate the flight charges as BA have not communicated with them about my depute.
Absolutely bizarre.
BA have managed to overturn AMEX' efforts to resolve this by not simply not responding to AMEX requests for information about the flight and my depute. AMEX believe that the charge should not stand on my account but cannot help me.
Taking some time to re quaint myself with this thread and some of my legal eagles. Terribly disappointing and shambolic BA.
May 20, 2017, 8:49 am
#176
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,992
This seems very odd. If BA didn't come back to Amex, why would they have to reinstate the charge? Does anyone else know if that is normal? From my understanding of a cc dispute, the merchant has a certain time to respond to defend the charge back?
May 20, 2017, 9:11 am
#178
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK/Las Vegas
Programs: BA Gold (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 15,926
Good Afternoon guys - an update from me.
AMEX today sent a letter saying that they have been forced to reinstate the flight charges as BA have not communicated with them about my depute.
Absolutely bizarre.
BA have managed to overturn AMEX' efforts to resolve this by not simply not responding to AMEX requests for information about the flight and my depute. AMEX believe that the charge should not stand on my account but cannot help me.
Taking some time to re quaint myself with this thread and some of my legal eagles. Terribly disappointing and shambolic BA.
AMEX today sent a letter saying that they have been forced to reinstate the flight charges as BA have not communicated with them about my depute.
Absolutely bizarre.
BA have managed to overturn AMEX' efforts to resolve this by not simply not responding to AMEX requests for information about the flight and my depute. AMEX believe that the charge should not stand on my account but cannot help me.
Taking some time to re quaint myself with this thread and some of my legal eagles. Terribly disappointing and shambolic BA.
I would remind you of my earlier post in this topic:
I wouldn't count your chickens just yet. I presume your credit card company is handling your complaint under the Consumer Credit Act provisions or under its supplier agreement. Whilst it is clear you are entitled to compensation for the affected flight, what you are not entitled to is a refund of the entire round-trip ticket.
The credit card company cannot arbitrarily decide a supplier is liable and to what extent, it cannot simply charge back and think that is the end of it. This charge may well reappear in your account in the future. It depends on what the supplier thinks of the chargeback, and how it wishes to deal with it.
The credit card company cannot arbitrarily decide a supplier is liable and to what extent, it cannot simply charge back and think that is the end of it. This charge may well reappear in your account in the future. It depends on what the supplier thinks of the chargeback, and how it wishes to deal with it.
May 20, 2017, 1:10 pm
#179
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 109
Sorry to hear this situation still hasn't resolved in your favour.
The terms and conditions for American Express card acceptance states the following: "We have Chargeback rights (or our previous decision to exercise our Chargeback rights will remain in effect) for the amount of the Disputed Charge if, by the end of that fourteen (14) day period, you have not either provided the Cardmember with a full refund, or provided us with the information requested."
So you've certainly been given incorrect information as, from what I understand from the above, if the merchant doesn't provide AmEx with a response within 14 days the chargeback would stand.
The terms and conditions for American Express card acceptance states the following: "We have Chargeback rights (or our previous decision to exercise our Chargeback rights will remain in effect) for the amount of the Disputed Charge if, by the end of that fourteen (14) day period, you have not either provided the Cardmember with a full refund, or provided us with the information requested."
So you've certainly been given incorrect information as, from what I understand from the above, if the merchant doesn't provide AmEx with a response within 14 days the chargeback would stand.
May 20, 2017, 7:03 pm
#180
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,992
Sorry to hear this situation still hasn't resolved in your favour.
The terms and conditions for American Express card acceptance states the following: "We have Chargeback rights (or our previous decision to exercise our Chargeback rights will remain in effect) for the amount of the Disputed Charge if, by the end of that fourteen (14) day period, you have not either provided the Cardmember with a full refund, or provided us with the information requested."
So you've certainly been given incorrect information as, from what I understand from the above, if the merchant doesn't provide AmEx with a response within 14 days the chargeback would stand.
The terms and conditions for American Express card acceptance states the following: "We have Chargeback rights (or our previous decision to exercise our Chargeback rights will remain in effect) for the amount of the Disputed Charge if, by the end of that fourteen (14) day period, you have not either provided the Cardmember with a full refund, or provided us with the information requested."
So you've certainly been given incorrect information as, from what I understand from the above, if the merchant doesn't provide AmEx with a response within 14 days the chargeback would stand.