Pax separated after aircraft change?
Nov 24, 2016 | 6:14 am
#62
Community Director
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norwich, UK
Programs: A3*G, MH Platinum, BA Gold, BD Gold (in memoriam), IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 9,249
Folks, we aim to be a very welcoming board. Some of the recent posts in this thread do not meet that criteria, and it is entirely inappropriate to cast aspersions as to the motives and behavioural characteristics of the OP when no evidence whatsoever apparently exists to support that from what she has written.
The OP made an enquiry as to whether what happened to her was normal in the world of BA - nothing more, nothing less. If anyone wishes her to re-engage in the thread to provide more insight, this hardly seems the best way to encourage her to do so ...
/mod
The OP made an enquiry as to whether what happened to her was normal in the world of BA - nothing more, nothing less. If anyone wishes her to re-engage in the thread to provide more insight, this hardly seems the best way to encourage her to do so ...
/mod
Nov 24, 2016 | 4:00 pm
#63
Join Date: Jun 2007
Programs: BA silver
Posts: 447
Folks, we aim to be a very welcoming board. Some of the recent posts in this thread do not meet that criteria, and it is entirely inappropriate to cast aspersions as to the motives and behavioural characteristics of the OP when no evidence whatsoever apparently exists to support that from what she has written.
The OP made an enquiry as to whether what happened to her was normal in the world of BA - nothing more, nothing less. If anyone wishes her to re-engage in the thread to provide more insight, this hardly seems the best way to encourage her to do so ...
/mod
The OP made an enquiry as to whether what happened to her was normal in the world of BA - nothing more, nothing less. If anyone wishes her to re-engage in the thread to provide more insight, this hardly seems the best way to encourage her to do so ...
/mod
So, many of us have given our thoughts on how we think BA and also OP handled things. Sorry if we don't all agree with you or OP .
Nov 24, 2016 | 9:36 pm
#64
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Looking for thoughts on how a recent situation was handled..
(Snip)
Would you (as a GCH on a full fare J ticket, travelling with a SCH) expect BA to have been more proactive in resolving the situation? Or were we overreacting in our expectation to sit together for the flight? Should decisions like this be best made by cabin crew or dealt with by the ground staff?
(Snip)
Would you (as a GCH on a full fare J ticket, travelling with a SCH) expect BA to have been more proactive in resolving the situation? Or were we overreacting in our expectation to sit together for the flight? Should decisions like this be best made by cabin crew or dealt with by the ground staff?
That of course is not to suggest we should be unwelcoming.
Nov 24, 2016 | 9:44 pm
#65
Moderator: The British Airways Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Battleaxe Alliance
Posts: 22,181
This is one of the 'awkward' situations, I think. I caveat my reply by saying that I don't mind sitting away from my husband. As window seat hogging pair on long haul flight, the only choice we often have are well apart. On the last two flights the combination was 1A/4K and 1K/4A. It wasn't a desire to sit as far apart as possible while being in the same cabin, they were the only window seats left! Another caveat - I'm GGL, he's a (gifted) Gold - not that it would make any difference except for the fact that we can choose any seat in advance without paying a fee but we sometimes have no choice but to sit rather a long way from each other even then.
However I do understand people want to sit together. I have a friend who would not travel unless she's seated next to her partner because she's scared of flying (years of exposure to my prattling about flying unfortunately hasn't helped enough for her to fly independently yet). I also know many others with fear of flying although they would fly alone if essential.
At the same time, I can see the difficulties here. One thing for sure - BA hasn't done anything wrong. It's rather risky for them to shift people willy nilly to accommodate people who want to sit together too - how do they know those two sitting next to each other on separate PNR haven't actually chosen to sit together, for instance?
I'll give you a recent example that actually annoyed the hell out of me, despite my being a relatively relaxed traveller. I was seat shifted from 2F on G-GATx (this is a bulkhead window seat, I do not sit in window seat on short haul unless it's a bulkhead seat or endless legroom one) to 5F without consultation. As it turns out it was due to a couple who did not want to be seated apart. Why they did not move 2D to 5D is beyond me, but this is how it was done. Now, I hate being trapped in window seat as I am mildly claustrophobic. I asked to be found a seat in ET such is my disliking of being trapped.
The agent seems to have felt sorry for me and fully realised that 5F is hardly a reasonable substitute for 2F in this case, and contacted Seating who restored my original seat and put the couple together in 5D and 5F instead of 2D and 2F, which they should have done in the first place. Whether it was at their DYKWIA insistence that they'd be given a pair of good seats or just unthinking agent who thought 5F was an equivalent seat to 2F, I don't know. But it certainly did not please me.
The point is, never mind the fact that BA seemingly mindlessly moved someone to a much worse seat (if this was requested by the couple, it should have been refused in my view), why should someone who pre-assigned 2F for some time be inconvenienced by random people who want to sit together when it was entirely avoidable by seating the couple together in 5D/F instead?
Before anyone accuses me of being mean, I would swap seats for those who wish to sit together if the new seat is not substantially worse than the original one and have done so many times without being asked, but in this case there was clearly a solution that did not involve substantially disadvantaging a stranger (in this case me).
In order for BA to sort out the OP's seating situation, something similar may have needed to be done and it would have inconvenienced someone and maybe BA did not do it because of that.
Really, sometimes BA tries to (half) do the right thing by those in front of them and end up inconveniencing the 'invisible ones' who aren't right in front of them, and they also fail by not taking the risk of moving someone - they can't really win here in many cases.
In fact in my view the request of on-board swap should have been made to someone in lower deck so that whoever obliges would gain, not lose.
In any case I really think don't there was anything more BA could have done in this case, except not asking someone to move to an inferior seat for the OP (which in my opinion should not have happened when it was avoidable). As far as action to benefit the OP, I genuinely do not think BA could have done more in this case.
However I do understand people want to sit together. I have a friend who would not travel unless she's seated next to her partner because she's scared of flying (years of exposure to my prattling about flying unfortunately hasn't helped enough for her to fly independently yet). I also know many others with fear of flying although they would fly alone if essential.
At the same time, I can see the difficulties here. One thing for sure - BA hasn't done anything wrong. It's rather risky for them to shift people willy nilly to accommodate people who want to sit together too - how do they know those two sitting next to each other on separate PNR haven't actually chosen to sit together, for instance?
I'll give you a recent example that actually annoyed the hell out of me, despite my being a relatively relaxed traveller. I was seat shifted from 2F on G-GATx (this is a bulkhead window seat, I do not sit in window seat on short haul unless it's a bulkhead seat or endless legroom one) to 5F without consultation. As it turns out it was due to a couple who did not want to be seated apart. Why they did not move 2D to 5D is beyond me, but this is how it was done. Now, I hate being trapped in window seat as I am mildly claustrophobic. I asked to be found a seat in ET such is my disliking of being trapped.
The agent seems to have felt sorry for me and fully realised that 5F is hardly a reasonable substitute for 2F in this case, and contacted Seating who restored my original seat and put the couple together in 5D and 5F instead of 2D and 2F, which they should have done in the first place. Whether it was at their DYKWIA insistence that they'd be given a pair of good seats or just unthinking agent who thought 5F was an equivalent seat to 2F, I don't know. But it certainly did not please me.
The point is, never mind the fact that BA seemingly mindlessly moved someone to a much worse seat (if this was requested by the couple, it should have been refused in my view), why should someone who pre-assigned 2F for some time be inconvenienced by random people who want to sit together when it was entirely avoidable by seating the couple together in 5D/F instead?
Before anyone accuses me of being mean, I would swap seats for those who wish to sit together if the new seat is not substantially worse than the original one and have done so many times without being asked, but in this case there was clearly a solution that did not involve substantially disadvantaging a stranger (in this case me).
In order for BA to sort out the OP's seating situation, something similar may have needed to be done and it would have inconvenienced someone and maybe BA did not do it because of that.
Really, sometimes BA tries to (half) do the right thing by those in front of them and end up inconveniencing the 'invisible ones' who aren't right in front of them, and they also fail by not taking the risk of moving someone - they can't really win here in many cases.
In fact in my view the request of on-board swap should have been made to someone in lower deck so that whoever obliges would gain, not lose.
In any case I really think don't there was anything more BA could have done in this case, except not asking someone to move to an inferior seat for the OP (which in my opinion should not have happened when it was avoidable). As far as action to benefit the OP, I genuinely do not think BA could have done more in this case.
Last edited by LTN Phobia; Nov 24, 2016 at 9:54 pm
Nov 24, 2016 | 9:54 pm
#66
FlyerTalk Evangelist and Ambassador: The British Airways Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Diam, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 33,116
This is one of the 'awkward' situations, I think. I caveat my reply by saying that I don't mind sitting away from my husband. As window seat hogging pair on long haul flight, the only choice we often have are well apart. On the last two flights the combination was 1A/4K and 1K/4A. It wasn't a desire to sit as far apart as possible while being in the same cabin, they were the only window seats left! Another caveat - I'm GGL, he's a (gifted) Gold - not that it would make any difference except for the fact that we can choose any seat in advance without paying a fee but we sometimes have no choice but to sit rather a long way from each other even then.
However I do understand people want to sit together. I have a friend who would not travel unless she's seated next to her partner because she's scared of flying (years of exposure to my prattling about flying unfortunately hasn't helped enough for her to fly independently yet). I also know many others with fear of flying although they would fly alone if essential.
At the same time, I can see the difficulties here. One thing for sure - BA hasn't done anything wrong. It's rather risky for them to shift people willy nilly to accommodate people who want to sit together too - how do they know those two sitting next to each other on separate PNR haven't actually chosen to sit together, for instance?
I'll give you a recent example that actually annoyed the hell out of me, despite my being a relatively relaxed traveller. I was seat shifted from 2F on G-GATx (this is a bulkhead window seat, I do not sit in window seat on short haul unless it's a bulkhead seat or endless legroom one) to 5F without consultation. As it turns out it was due to a couple who did not want to be seated apart. Why they did not move 2D to 5D is beyond me, but this is how it was done. Now, I hate being trapped in window seat as I am mildly claustrophobic. I asked to be found a seat in ET such is my disliking of being trapped.
The agent seems to have felt sorry for me and fully realised that 5F is hardly a reasonable substitute for 2F in this case, and contacted Seating who restored my original seat and put the couple together in 5D and 5F instead of 2D and 2F, which they should have done in the first place. Whether it was at their DYKWIA insistence that they'd be given a pair of good seats or just unthinking agent who thought 5F was an equivalent seat to 2F, I don't know. But it certainly did not please me.
The point is, never mind the fact that BA seemingly mindlessly moved someone to a much worse seat (if this was requested by the couple, it should have been refused in my view), why should someone who pre-assigned 2F for some time be inconvenienced by random people who want to sit together when it was entirely avoidable by seating the couple together in 5D/F instead?
Before anyone accuses me of being mean, I would swap seats for those who wish to sit together if the new seat is not substantially worse than the original one and have done so many times without being asked, but in this case there was clearly a solution that did not involve substantially disadvantaging a stranger (in this case me).
In order for BA to sort out the OP's seating situation, something similar may have needed to be done and it would have inconvenienced someone and maybe BA did not do it because of that.
Really, sometimes BA tries to (half) do the right thing by those in front of them and end up inconveniencing the 'invisible ones' who aren't right in front of them, and they also fail by not taking the risk of moving someone - they can't really win here in many cases.
In fact in my view the request of on-board swap should have been made to someone in lower deck so that whoever obliges would gain, not lose.
In any case I really think don't there was anything more BA could have done in this case, except not asking someone to move to an inferior seat for the OP (which in my opinion should not have happened when it was avoidable). As far as action to benefit the OP, I genuinely do not think BA could have done more in this case.
However I do understand people want to sit together. I have a friend who would not travel unless she's seated next to her partner because she's scared of flying (years of exposure to my prattling about flying unfortunately hasn't helped enough for her to fly independently yet). I also know many others with fear of flying although they would fly alone if essential.
At the same time, I can see the difficulties here. One thing for sure - BA hasn't done anything wrong. It's rather risky for them to shift people willy nilly to accommodate people who want to sit together too - how do they know those two sitting next to each other on separate PNR haven't actually chosen to sit together, for instance?
I'll give you a recent example that actually annoyed the hell out of me, despite my being a relatively relaxed traveller. I was seat shifted from 2F on G-GATx (this is a bulkhead window seat, I do not sit in window seat on short haul unless it's a bulkhead seat or endless legroom one) to 5F without consultation. As it turns out it was due to a couple who did not want to be seated apart. Why they did not move 2D to 5D is beyond me, but this is how it was done. Now, I hate being trapped in window seat as I am mildly claustrophobic. I asked to be found a seat in ET such is my disliking of being trapped.
The agent seems to have felt sorry for me and fully realised that 5F is hardly a reasonable substitute for 2F in this case, and contacted Seating who restored my original seat and put the couple together in 5D and 5F instead of 2D and 2F, which they should have done in the first place. Whether it was at their DYKWIA insistence that they'd be given a pair of good seats or just unthinking agent who thought 5F was an equivalent seat to 2F, I don't know. But it certainly did not please me.
The point is, never mind the fact that BA seemingly mindlessly moved someone to a much worse seat (if this was requested by the couple, it should have been refused in my view), why should someone who pre-assigned 2F for some time be inconvenienced by random people who want to sit together when it was entirely avoidable by seating the couple together in 5D/F instead?
Before anyone accuses me of being mean, I would swap seats for those who wish to sit together if the new seat is not substantially worse than the original one and have done so many times without being asked, but in this case there was clearly a solution that did not involve substantially disadvantaging a stranger (in this case me).
In order for BA to sort out the OP's seating situation, something similar may have needed to be done and it would have inconvenienced someone and maybe BA did not do it because of that.
Really, sometimes BA tries to (half) do the right thing by those in front of them and end up inconveniencing the 'invisible ones' who aren't right in front of them, and they also fail by not taking the risk of moving someone - they can't really win here in many cases.
In fact in my view the request of on-board swap should have been made to someone in lower deck so that whoever obliges would gain, not lose.
In any case I really think don't there was anything more BA could have done in this case, except not asking someone to move to an inferior seat for the OP (which in my opinion should not have happened when it was avoidable). As far as action to benefit the OP, I genuinely do not think BA could have done more in this case.
Nov 24, 2016 | 11:24 pm
#67
Community Director
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norwich, UK
Programs: A3*G, MH Platinum, BA Gold, BD Gold (in memoriam), IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 9,249
Whether any individual mod agrees or disagrees with what happened to the OP is irrelevant - them's the rules!
NWIFlyer
Moderator
BAEC
Nov 24, 2016 | 11:43 pm
#69
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tokyo
Programs: SPG LT Plat ANA Plat
Posts: 596
Having said this in light of the FACTS, I think BA did as well as could be expected.
Nov 25, 2016 | 12:00 am
#70
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Democratic People's Republic of the UK
Programs: Lifetime Gold, Global Entry, Hertz PC, and my wallet
Posts: 21,775
So you rang Ba to change seats and they could not put you together. Then you tried at checking an still no seats together so then you try in the lounge without success. Most people would then believe it was not possible but you didn't want to take no for an answer so then the old trick, turn on the tears!
I'm sorry but I ran out of sympathy for you when you said in your post that being a GCH you expected BA should do something.
Worst of all, you said in your post that would have liked to have known where the man who changed seats was so you could thank him. Clearly you were not too bothered because he was obviously sat downstairs in your husbands old seat.
Have you thought that the man who gave up his upper deck seat may well have been a GCH too? And like others have said, why did you not offer to sit downstairs with your husband as everyone knows upper deck seats are more favoured.
I'm sorry but I ran out of sympathy for you when you said in your post that being a GCH you expected BA should do something.
Worst of all, you said in your post that would have liked to have known where the man who changed seats was so you could thank him. Clearly you were not too bothered because he was obviously sat downstairs in your husbands old seat.
Have you thought that the man who gave up his upper deck seat may well have been a GCH too? And like others have said, why did you not offer to sit downstairs with your husband as everyone knows upper deck seats are more favoured.
Nov 25, 2016 | 2:27 am
#71
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: LONDON
Posts: 415
It is a shame that someone cannot come to a British Airways frequent flyer forum and ask a question like that - it seems more reasonable and valid for the frequent flyer than continual banging on about what wine is where, meal serving orders or pillow plumpness.
Perhaps she was hoping for some support in providing the fare and card colour information, not offering it as an badge of honour. It almost seems logical to suppose it might give the question more weight, not realising that by mentioning you are a member of the FFP the forum is supposed to support will unleash a bizarre type of anger and suspicion.
Yes, it's an assumption but no more so than the crass assumptions that have been made - relentlessly - further up. In this case it's more worthy of a mention because it's avoiding the series of replies assuming him/her being a Blue/Bronze/Blank on an award booking/cheap ticket and how she should feel lucky to get a seat at all and allowing us to go straight to the "Who Do You Think You Are?" part. The OP could never win here.
These threads rarely become about the OP's question or issues but the paranoid insecurities of some of those that choose to reply.
My assumption is that the guy that moved was not a FTer because no doubt he would have been on here - outraged - by some crazed woman who demanded he be moved from his superior, coveted seat to the dorm down below and full of self-loathing because , for whatever reason, he felt he could not say "No" or even "I need to be here because..." preferring to seethe for hours or days about the treatment.
Maybe he was just a decent guy who feels a Club seat is a Club seat, who did a favour for a passenger and crew and just wanted to get to the other end.
Perhaps she was hoping for some support in providing the fare and card colour information, not offering it as an badge of honour. It almost seems logical to suppose it might give the question more weight, not realising that by mentioning you are a member of the FFP the forum is supposed to support will unleash a bizarre type of anger and suspicion.
Yes, it's an assumption but no more so than the crass assumptions that have been made - relentlessly - further up. In this case it's more worthy of a mention because it's avoiding the series of replies assuming him/her being a Blue/Bronze/Blank on an award booking/cheap ticket and how she should feel lucky to get a seat at all and allowing us to go straight to the "Who Do You Think You Are?" part. The OP could never win here.
These threads rarely become about the OP's question or issues but the paranoid insecurities of some of those that choose to reply.
My assumption is that the guy that moved was not a FTer because no doubt he would have been on here - outraged - by some crazed woman who demanded he be moved from his superior, coveted seat to the dorm down below and full of self-loathing because , for whatever reason, he felt he could not say "No" or even "I need to be here because..." preferring to seethe for hours or days about the treatment.
Maybe he was just a decent guy who feels a Club seat is a Club seat, who did a favour for a passenger and crew and just wanted to get to the other end.
Nov 25, 2016 | 3:18 am
#72
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Democratic People's Republic of the UK
Programs: Lifetime Gold, Global Entry, Hertz PC, and my wallet
Posts: 21,775
They have asked the question and got a mix of answers. I don't see anything wrong with that. It's a bit like asking "does my bum look big in this" and not liking it when someone says "no, not when compared to a hippo". If people don't understand that about fora and social media then they should stay off it.
Nov 25, 2016 | 3:39 am
#74
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Thames Valley
Programs: BAEC, LHM&M, and even a dusty KLFB!
Posts: 899
Oh dear - I don't think some of the responses in this thread represent FT's finest hour.
I don't see any evidence of the OP demanding the swap, nor of the person who swapped seats caring one way or another about being on the UD or LD. What I guess happened was that the CSD noticed the OP's slightly emotional state and asked what was wrong, and probably thought that the first and simplest thing to do was to ask the person sitting next to her, rather than going downstairs and asking someone there (who might not have even been on board yet). Occam's razor (ish) - when you're busy, you do the simplest thing first!
I equally suspect that the only action taken by staff when the OP called up and at (very busy airport) JFK was to look at the seat map to see if there were any pairs free.
And in a normal situation I'd agree that that is all that anyone should expect - if someone is willing to move once onboard, then great, but don't expect it.
What I think is different in this scenario, as someone has already mentioned, is that given it was an a/c change, very many people in the cabin would have already been moved around. In that scenario, it is actually much more straightforward to find someone who has been moved but hasn't checked in yet, and simply swap their seats again. Since it wasn't a seat they'd selected in the first place, there's no harm done. But that does take a bit of time and willingness, which seems to have been absent on this occasion - as mentioned above, this is quite possibly due to the workload at JFK of the staff involved.
Something similar happened with me a couple of years ago coming back from ICN - I was "upgraded" at the gate from a WT+ window to a CW centre seat, and refused it. Rather than - say - further upgrading the person who'd been given my original seat and giving it back to me (which I suggested), they found another upgrade to CW in an aisle seat who hadn't yet got their new boarding card, and swapped the two of us around. I was only mildly disgruntled at the outcome, and they were none the wiser and happy with their upgrade.
I don't see any evidence of the OP demanding the swap, nor of the person who swapped seats caring one way or another about being on the UD or LD. What I guess happened was that the CSD noticed the OP's slightly emotional state and asked what was wrong, and probably thought that the first and simplest thing to do was to ask the person sitting next to her, rather than going downstairs and asking someone there (who might not have even been on board yet). Occam's razor (ish) - when you're busy, you do the simplest thing first!
I equally suspect that the only action taken by staff when the OP called up and at (very busy airport) JFK was to look at the seat map to see if there were any pairs free.
And in a normal situation I'd agree that that is all that anyone should expect - if someone is willing to move once onboard, then great, but don't expect it.
What I think is different in this scenario, as someone has already mentioned, is that given it was an a/c change, very many people in the cabin would have already been moved around. In that scenario, it is actually much more straightforward to find someone who has been moved but hasn't checked in yet, and simply swap their seats again. Since it wasn't a seat they'd selected in the first place, there's no harm done. But that does take a bit of time and willingness, which seems to have been absent on this occasion - as mentioned above, this is quite possibly due to the workload at JFK of the staff involved.
Something similar happened with me a couple of years ago coming back from ICN - I was "upgraded" at the gate from a WT+ window to a CW centre seat, and refused it. Rather than - say - further upgrading the person who'd been given my original seat and giving it back to me (which I suggested), they found another upgrade to CW in an aisle seat who hadn't yet got their new boarding card, and swapped the two of us around. I was only mildly disgruntled at the outcome, and they were none the wiser and happy with their upgrade.
Nov 25, 2016 | 4:16 am
#75
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: LONDON
Posts: 415
They have asked the question and got a mix of answers. I don't see anything wrong with that. It's a bit like asking "does my bum look big in this" and not liking it when someone says "no, not when compared to a hippo". If people don't understand that about fora and social media then they should stay off it.
It is actually like asking "does my bum look big in this?" and then getting the responses "we don't care but it probably annoyed others around you".
---
Of course it is not BA's fault but equipment was changed, presumably to a larger capacity, how is it wrong for a passenger to assume a seating change could be achieved? Even if it absolutely could not, the assumption is a reasonable one. How can this ever be considered some sort of morally questionable scheme. Laughable.