Ex-Mainland Europe Travel Planning Guide
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i Preface The Ambassador team has creating this guide in response to the often asked questions that arise whenever we plan our travels originating from Mainland Europe. As you can see it is still a work in progress but we feel there is sufficient meat to the bones to launch the thread. So please bear with us while we work on the remaining chapters - these are displayed in grey in the list of contents immediately below. If you'd like to add your own experience or wisdom, your contribution would be most welcome. ii Contents Introduction Advantages and potential pitfalls Turn-around points in Europe AMS Amsterdam Schiphol Starting points further afieldARN Stockholm Arlanda Terminal 2 ATH Athens BCN Barcelona Terminal 1 BGO Bergen BRU Brussels DUB Dublin Terminal 1 DUS Dusseldorf EDI Edinburgh FRA Frankfurt Terminal 2 GLA Glasgow GVA Geneva HAM Hamburg HEL Helsinki IST Istanbul Ataturk LIN Milan Linate LUX Luxembourg Terminal A MAD Madrid Barajas Terminal 4S MXP Milan Malpensa OSL Oslo RTM Rotterdam The Hague SVG Stavanger TXL Berlin Tegel WAW Warsaw Middle East Travel planning essentialsSri Lanka Working with ticket rules ITA matrix and working examples Baggage interlining etc Planning positioning flights Using Reward Flight Savers Regional UK feeders (Air France, KLM, Lufthansa, Easyjet etc) iii Acknowledgments This guide is a collaborative effort, and could not have been produced without the kind contributions from BahrainLad, corporate-wage-slave, Dave_C, dunk, DWFI, Lucanesque, and stifle. Additional thanks are due to dnw, pauldb, and Raffles for paving the way, and of course to everyone who has contributed on this subject in the BA forum. iv Related threads |
Introduction
This short guide is based on what was written by dnw who many year ago pioneered the use of ‘ex-LIS’ fares (i.e. fares which began by flying from Lisbon) on the BA Board. The ex-LIS deals themselves have now ceased to be so attractive but the principle remains and does apply to other European cities. Thanks to a tool originally posted by pauldb and a process honed by Raffles, this guide should still explain everything you need to try and take advantage of this (perfectly legitimate) approach to getting cheaper premium travel.
What's all this about cheap BA premium fares from Europe? The worst kept secret on the BA board…if you want to save thousands (literally!) on J (Club World) and F (First) travel on BA to a number of destinations just by doing a quick roundtrip to somewhere in Europe first, read on… Although this guide will often use AMS as an example, by virtue of it's connectivity to UK regional airports and across Continental Europe, the principle applies to many other cities. At present, the cheapest starting point for an ex-EU trip is often Milan or Amsterdam – but where you see the word AMS here, substitute wherever is currently cheapest. You’ll learn where to find the cheapest point later. Whilst currency fluctuations between GBP and the Euro can diminish the general savings to be made from starting on the Continent, BA still offers some very good deals to those starting from European destinations when travelling long haul – primarily to entice them away from more direct options. |
Advantages and potential pitfalls
What is the catch?
There isn't one! Instead of paying, say, £3000 for a semi-flexible Club World ticket LHR-LAX-LHR, you can buy one for less than £1,500 if you start your journey in AMS instead of LHR. Of course the cheapest fares are I class Club World fares which are generally available during BA sales, so it pays to check the forum for active Continental Europe sales and promotions. You simply need to buy a cheap one-way ticket to AMS first. You can also, for a fee, build in a stopover in London – so you could, for example, fly to AMS for a weekend break in August (using the first leg of your LAX ticket for the return) and then do the LHR-LAX leg in September. The only catch is that you MUST MUST MUST start your journey in AMS! You CANNOT discard the AMS segment and just turn up for the longhaul at LHR. If you skip the first segment of your ticket BA will automatically invalidate your entire trip (and don’t go crying for a refund either, this is just one of the rules!) However, you don't need to take the final segment back to AMS if you don’t want to. If you are on a J ticket (where stopovers are chargeable) and are worried about BA wanting to check your bags all the way through to AMS and you’re coming off a longhaul flight at LHR, then book your return segment back from LGW instead. In these cases, the LHR/LGW transit means they CAN'T through check your bags. Booking the last leg ex-LGW will make the ticket slightly cheaper as the airport service charges are slightly lower than LHR. Conversely, booking the last leg ex-LCY will make the ticket slightly more expensive. If you cannot book your last leg from the ‘other’ airport, you may want to book it for the next day (but less than 24 hours from arrival, so it is not treated as a stopover). This gives you far more leverage with BA if check-in at, say, LAX try to insist – incorrectly - that you must check your bag to your final destination. That said, BA do appear to audit the use of tickets, and may get in touch if you’re doing this a lot. Once or twice in a while should be fine, but if you plan on doing this frequently then you may wish to use all sectors in your ticket (if nothing else to start your next trip off!). If you are on an F ticket then a neat trick is to take advantage of the free stopovers and book your final LHR-AMS segment a long time in the future – you can then use this to get down to AMS to start your next trip! |
Turn-around points in Europe
The posts below provide some guidance as to what you can expect when arriving and turning around at a selection of Continental European airports. Whilst neither Edinburgh and Glasgow offer cost effective starting points they have been included since many of us ask about the ease of using these airports as turn-arounds. Newcastle, Manchester, Aberdeen and Belfast are the same as Edinburgh and Glasgow. Leeds/Bradford and Isle of Man are out through normal exit and back in through security, but 10 minutes will cover.
AMS Amsterdam Schiphol If there are any airports not covered but you think ought to be, please post your own recommendations along with any useful logistical guidance. We can add these as we go. For more information, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...ations-13.htmlARN Stockholm Arlanda Terminal 2 ATH Athens BCN Barcelona Terminal 1 BGO Bergen BRU Brussels DUB Dublin Terminal 1 DUS Dusseldorf EDI Edinburgh FRA Frankfurt Terminal 2 GLA Glasgow GVA Geneva HAM Hamburg HEL Helsinki IST Istanbul Ataturk LIN Milan Linate LUX Luxembourg Terminal A MAD Madrid Barajas Terminal 4S MXP Milan Malpensa OSL Oslo RTM Rotterdam The Hague SVG Stavanger TXL Berlin Tegel WAW Warsaw |
AMS Amsterdam Schiphol
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Terminal facilities
Variables
FT back to back turn-around rating: Excellent FT airside transfer rating: Good if non-Schengen, Reasonable if Schengen FT landside transfer rating: Poor |
ARN Stockholm Arlanda Terminal 2
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There is much quicker option. The arrival gates at ARN have a direct door for back to backs. Just as you come off the aircraft there is a glass door and buzzer which allows you back into the boarding area, bypassing security and passports. While this option reduces the transfer to 5 minutes, you miss the lounge experience which is between security and passports. Terminal facilities
FT back to back turn-around rating: Excellent FT airside transfer rating: Good FT landside transfer rating: Reasonable (arriving pax should watch for sign to gates 70-82) |
ATH Athens
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Very easy to do a turn around there, however you do need to be prepared with your return boarding pass. When you arrive on stand, you'll be on a jet-bridge, off the aircraft and down an escalator. Turn right at the bottom of the escalator and follow everyone towards to the end of the corridor, perhaps another 50m of walking. At the end, normal arrivals will turn left, however as a connecting passenger you need to turn right. You then need to turn right again, and there is an immigration and boarding pass check. The police officer will ask where you're travelling to, just say London, show your boarding pass, and then you'll be told to head back up the escalator which will take you into the departure lounge. All of the shops and the BA lounge are outside of security, so within ten minutes of landing, you can be back in the lounge. They call boarding in the lounge, but it can get busy so might want to go a few minutes earlier. |
BCN Barcelona Terminal 1
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Dedicated security and passport check for transit passenger to both sides of the main passport check for exiting passengers. 20 minutes, mainly due to the length of the walkways rather than any queues Terminal facilities
FT back to back turn-around rating: Good FT airside transfer rating: Good if non-Schengen, Reasonable if Schengen FT landside transfer rating: Reasonable |
BGO Bergen
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Arrivals decant into departure hall. Fool proof although flight timetable is slim (2 flights daily) Terminal facilities
FT back to back turn-around rating: Excellent FT airside transfer rating: Excellent FT landside transfer rating: Excellent |
BRU Brussels
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No passports, but security (with fast track) and a long passageway to get to it. 30 minutes is conservative. BA lounge 5 minutes and close to usual boarding gate airside. Terminal facilities
Variables
FT back to back turn-around rating: Good FT airside transfer rating: Reasonable FT landside transfer rating: Poor |
DUB Dublin Terminal 1
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Transfer channel, go up the stairs next to baggage belt 2. Terminal facilities
FT back to back turn-around rating: Good FT airside transfer rating: Good if Common Travel Area, otherwise Reasonable FT landside transfer rating: Reasonable |
DUS Dusseldorf
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With recent reports of BA flights using remote stands (Summer 2015) and consequently coaching to/from the aircraft combined with a risk of congestion at Border Control, the back to back rating has been adjusted from Excellent to Poor. See kt74's post here FT back to back turn-around rating: Poor FT airside transfer rating: Excellent if non-Schengen, Good if Schengen FT landside transfer rating: Good |
EDI Edinburgh
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Exit the airbridge. Take a seat. Then re-board. It really is that simple Terminal facilities
Variables
FT back to back turn-around rating: Excellent FT airside transfer rating: Excellent if domestic, otherwise Reasonable to Poor FT landside transfer rating: Reasonable to Poor |
FRA Frankfurt Terminal 2
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Security check only, risk of bus transfer, no passports. Can be 10 minutes (airbridge and good security); can be 30 minutes (bus and lousy security). Fast track security but often useless. Terminal facilities
Variables
FT back to back turn-around rating: Poor FT airside transfer rating: Poor, particularly coming off Schengen FT landside transfer rating: Reasonable |
GLA Glasgow
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Like EDI, exit the airbridge. Take a seat. Then re-board. Terminal facilities
Variables
FT back to back turn-around rating: Excellent FT airside transfer rating: Excellent if domestic, otherwise Reasonable to Poor FT landside transfer rating: Reasonable |
GVA Geneva
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Terminal facilities FT back to back turn-around rating: Excellent FT airside transfer rating: Good FT landside transfer rating: Good, but can be Poor during ski season |
HAM Hamburg
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Like AMS, turnarounds at HAM are pain free - no security checks and no passport control. BA uses Gates B20 to B32 located on a pier connected to the main terminal. However BA does occasionally use a gate outside this area. There is a poorly signposted transfer route to airside. Most of the terminal amenities are located in the Schengen gate area and while these are accessible, it does involve passport control in both directions. If going landside allow 20 minutes to return to airside. Terminal facilities
FT back to back turn-around rating: Excellent FT airside transfer rating: Excellent if non-Schengen, Good if Schengen FT landside transfer rating: Reasonable |
HEL Helsinki
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No passport control or security. Most of the time its a gate arrival (risk of coaching from a Schengen stand to an international gate) Terminal facilities
FT back to back turn-around rating: Excellent to Good FT airside transfer rating: Excellent to Good FT landside transfer rating: Reasonable |
IST Istanbul Ataturk
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Security only, but relatively fast. 30 minutes. Millennium lounge (BA's contract lounge) is en route. Note long turn around times. Also ensure you follow signs for flight connections, going landside may require you to get a visa. Terminal facilities
Variables Risk of remote stand/bus transfer to/from Gates 501-504. These gates are a good 15 min walk from the Millennium lounge FT back to back turn-around rating: Good FT airside transfer rating: Good FT landside transfer rating: Poor. You may need to buy a visa |
LIN Milan Linate
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Its always a bus gate, so its important to position yourself on the bus to get off first. Once you get off the bus, there's a passport check. You then walk through into the baggage reclaim hall; continue walking straight on, with the baggage belts to your right. The exit will be at the end on the left. Once you exit the secure area into the arrivals hall, there are some steps immediately on your right which will take you up a level to get into the checkin area. Continue walking straight onwards to get to the BA checkin area - security is to the right. There's a fast track security for Club / Gold / Silver passengers. Once through security, you'll be deposited into a shop. Walk through the airport down the stairs and you'll find the lounge. Once through the outbound passport check, you'll be at the gate, where you can get on the bus back to the aircraft. Terminal facilities
FT back to back turn-around rating: Good FT airside transfer rating: Good FT landside transfer rating: Reasonable to Poor (bus gates) |
LUX Luxembourg Terminal A
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Full exit and re-entry required, there is a flight connection route but it is generally closed. Passports, security, passports However small airport and fast processing means safely do able in 30 minutes. Terminal facilities FT back to back turn-around rating: Good FT airside transfer rating: Good FT landside transfer rating: Good |
MAD Madrid Barajas Terminal 4S
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Turnarounds on BA operated aircraft are pain free - no security checks and no passport control. Once you exit the air bridge follow the signs up to the mezzanine and towards flight connections. From there you enter the main departure area. You're visit to Madrid in the cozy confines of Barajas Terminal 4 Satellite. Do not attempt to go landside. It is a long distance and can easily take over 30 minutes to return. Terminal facilities
FT back to back turn-around rating: Excellent FT airside transfer rating: Good to Reasonable depending on arriving terminal FT landside transfer rating: Reasonable |
MXP Milan Malpensa
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Security check only (dedicated and often idle flight connections security). 10 minutes to get there, 10 minutes to get back to gate, 20 minutes in all. BA lounge near security check. No passports. Terminal facilities Note: There are often long turnaround times at MXP FT back to back turn-around rating: Good FT airside transfer rating: Good FT landside transfer rating: Good |
OSL Oslo
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Terminal facilities
Variables Two sets of passport control - at arrivals and again enroute to the departure gate. See here for more information FT back to back turn-around rating: Reasonable FT airside transfer rating: Reasonable FT landside transfer rating: Reasonable |
RTM Rotterdam The Hague
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Full exit and re-entry required, however it is a small airport. So that's bus, passports, security and then passports, finally bus. Do-able in 30 minutes. There are a few other non Schengen flights (notably one to Turkey). If that gets in just before the BA service, the queue for passports into RTM can be bad. So a bit of a risk. Passports outbound no risk at all, security - there is fast track and that's generally good. Terminal facilities
FT back to back turn-around rating: Good FT airside transfer rating: Good FT landside transfer rating: Good. Reasonable during morning/evening peaks |
SVG Stavanger
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Arrivals decant into departure hall. Fool proof although flight timetable is slim (Note: there is a single daily service between LHR and SVG) Terminal facilities
FT back to back turn-around rating: Excellent FT airside transfer rating: Excellent FT landside transfer rating: Excellent |
TXL Berlin Tegel
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There is security and passport control at the gate, and normally boarding will continue until all passengers have been processed. Sometimes staff will invite you to use a nearby gate to speed up processing. Terminal facilities Terminal A is hexagonal in plan and the concourse forms a continuous loop
FT back to back turn-around rating: Good FT airside transfer rating: Good FT landside transfer rating: Good. All security is at gates |
WAW Warsaw
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Security only, special route upstairs with few other passengers, less than 10 minutes. (Note this is different for arrivals from other Polish airports, when there would be passports but no security, 15 minutes due to the length of the airport). Terminal facilities The usual facilities are available once you reach the non-Schengen gate area
FT back to back turn-around rating: Good FT airside transfer rating: Good FT landside transfer rating: Reasonable |
Working with ticket rules
What are the rules and restrictions?
Cancellation penalties and stopover fees change from fare to fare and from country to country, although stopovers are usually Euro 200 each-way if you break your journey in London for > 24 hours. Also remember you need to factor in the cost of getting to your point of departure, and potentially the cost of a hotel if you are travelling too far to return in a day (e.g. Cyprus, Athens). whichbudget.com lists budget airlines flying to all major cities, and www.skyscanner.net may also be useful. In general, you will see the rules are much more flexible for the equivalent fare bucket ex-UK. First fares: A neat trick for the Club fares – if you time your arrival into London and the departure of your long haul segment right, you can essentially have a free nightstop in London without having an 'official' stopover. For example, you arrive from AMS on a Monday at 21:15 and you can then book your long haul flight the next day (Tuesday) at any time up to 21:14 (< 24hrs) and it is NOT charged as a stopover. Book it for 21:15 or later and that'll be much more expensive fare please. Similarly, you can introduce overnight stays at intermediate connecting cities so long as your connections remain under 24 hours.
Club World fares Again, taking the current ex-AMS I7SALE fares, the rules are:
*A stopover is a transit of an intermediate point that exceeds 24hrs. Note: BA seem to have clamped down on stopover rules, potentially in light of more widespread use of ex-EU fares. Check your fare rules carefully as lots of fares now limit you to a month’s stopover in the UK at most in either direction. |
ITA matrix and working examples
How much/when/where?
Following the steps below (idiot-proofed by FTers for some years now!) to find the cheapest starting point for your trip. (1) Go to http://matrix.itasoftware.com (2) Complete "From" as AMS;ARN;ATH;BRU;BUD;CAI;CPH;FRA;HEL;IST;LCA;LIN;LI S;PAR;VIE;WAW :: BA+ For completeness, you may want to do a second search on the rest of the EU and potential EU member states:DUB;DUS;HAM;LUX;MAD;OSL;OTP;PRG;RTM;SOF;ZAG :: BA+ Do also bear in mind that some of the airports there are quite far way from London (e.g. ATH, CAI, IST, HEL) and you may not want to have the hassle of such a long flight to begin your journey. If so, you can come up with your own list based on the above with airports (or others) that suit you best personally.YYY :: BA+ (4) Enter rough dates which suit you and LON as "sales city" to get GBP pricesWhere YYY is your destination - if you don't know the airport code, you can use FlyerTalk's own Airport Code Look-up tool (5) Click "More Options", change cabin to "Business" or "First" and uncheck "Check seat availability" This will bring up the cheapest listed fare for the route on that day, although it does not necessarily mean that tickets will still be available at that price. You can use dnw's method below to find days with actual I (Club) or A (First) availability. You can also use a tool such as www.expertflyer.com or KVS, though these are not free. (6) Click "Go". Scroll down the results if you don't fancy the first options (usually TIP/CAI/IST) or just delete them in the first place.If you're looking for WT+ pricing (e.g. to Upgrade Using Avios), set the cabin as "Cheapest" and add " / F BC=T" to the "From" and "To" lines. The results will say "Coach", but it will be a WT+ T class fare. You will need to delete a couple of cities from the list to fit in the extra bit of text. When comparing WT+ prices for potential UuAs, don't forget that the cost of UuAs vary depending on the individual flight distance. You should factor in the worth of the extra Avios needed when considering which fare offers best value. Refine, rinse, and repeat as necessary Note that you may need to click on 'Cost' to reorder your results in price order, as the default is to list CAI flights first as they offer Club and First on all legs, not just the longhaul one. If searching for First flights, be careful as it sometimes lists itineraries where only one longhaul leg is in F and the return is in J. Now that you know what the cheapest fare is, you need to find days on which it is available. In order to get a special fare you need availability in the following booking classes on your required flights. Again, taking AMS as an example: AMS-LHR segment R-class (sometimes D on First fares but we'll say R to be safe) LHR-<DEST>R-class for Club, A-class for First You can use expertflyer.com to check availability by I/A code. Once you have found the right flights you can put them in to the ba.com site with your departure location set as Netherlands and it should price it up perfectly. Also note that the ‘feeder’ flights more regularly tend to book in J class now – this is better since J is nearly always available, meaning less ‘hunting’ for availability on your part. Working example So, let's put this into practice using the ITA Matrix to search for the cheapest flights between AMS, BRU, and CDG as potential origins and LAX/HNL as potential destinations. Step 1: Searching for flights and fares https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-O...xSteps.001.png Step 2: Reviewing the calendar results https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-I...xSteps.002.png Step 3: Choosing your flights https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-7...xSteps.003.png Step 4: Reviewing the itinerary details and fare construction https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-G...xSteps.004.png Step 5: Reviewing the fare rules Code:
Fare rules & restrictions Step 6: Booking your flights As you cannot actually book flights with the ITA Matrix, you will need to go to your preferred booking channel to complete the process, for example BA.com and AA.com |
This thread has been launched as a beta. As you can see from the contents list it is still a work in progress. So please bear with us while we work on the remaining chapters (displayed in grey in the list of contents).
If you'd like to add your own experience or wisdom, your contribution would be most welcome. |
Really helpful thread - thanks folks.
For computer illiterates (like me) who just copy the list of airports and paste into the "From" box on the Matrix search, you might have to separate them with a comma and not a semicolon. |
This is really helpful for those of us who haven't been to all of the EU hubs. Really helpful in assessing the risk of turnarounds.
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super thanks....
John |
An easy way of getting to Holland, to start your flights from Rotterdam or Amsterdam, is to use the Stena Line rail and sail deal overnight.
Typically the inclusive ticket costs £80 single including a train ticket from London Liverpool Street, cabin on the ship and onward train travel to anywhere in Holland. It is very easy, and I have found it to be very stress free. The ship is huge, new, and reliable. There are no long walks as the stations are next to the docks. |
What a great guide! You can also do a turnaround at MAN, here's a TP I did of my experience. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trip-...gw-tp-run.html
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For FRA, the nightstopper is always a bus gate. BA902/903 912/913 usually goes to the finger. LCY is always a bus gate.
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What an excellent and helpful thread with user-friendly graphics! Thank you.
In the past, I have used ex-EU tickets from VIE, ZRH and LIS as well as LIN, usually in conjunction with business trips to those cities. Since then, I know that the turnround situation at VIE (relocation of gates since my time) and ZRH (Heidi train and Schengen/non-Schengen) has changed. I'd be hesitant to recommend either of these without a test run myself. This leads me to think it will be important if all of us can check and update as things change. |
Really excellent stuff!
In particular the graphics, and ITA software directions! Curious about 2 questions though from the point of view of a luggage traveller, assuming AMS-LHR-XXX ticketed 1) Can you check luggage in at LHR before you fly AMS-LHR? 2) Can you check in luggage at LHR after flying AMS-LHR (same day non-stopover) |
Originally Posted by aceman
(Post 22082428)
Curious about 2 questions though from the point of view of a luggage traveller, assuming AMS-LHR-XXX ticketed
1) Can you check luggage in at LHR before you fly AMS-LHR? 2) Can you check in luggage at LHR after flying AMS-LHR (same day non-stopover) 2) Yes, same as above. Obviously not checking luggage (or sending it in advance) makes life a lot easier. |
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