Help with Beijing please
 

My good lady and I are keen to visit Beijing as part of our holiday at the beginning of October. Current thoughts are 5 days there, train to Xi'an then on to ?????. She wants sun/beach and stuff so anybody got any ideas.

Secondly, is Beijing the kind of place where it would be practical/possible/affordable to hire a car and driver for the duration/few days? I'm thinking of a local with a car who has some English - from what I hear most people do not speak English at all. This way may be good for us and it would also put a bit of money back into the local economy instead of the pockets of a multi-national. What kind of costs are we talking about and is it safe?

Finally, hotel recommendations? Neither of us are keen on the big chains and like to meet local people. Within most countries visited we pretty much take a flier and trust our judgement. But I'm not sure about Beijing as it is so very "foreign" to us

Thanks very much for any advice


Any help much appreciated

Steve, welcome to Flyertalk.

When you are logged into Flyertalk, you can use the search function. You can do a basic search or an advance search. If you just type in "Beijing," you will see that there are a lot of posts on travel to China -- many related to the questions you have asked such as hotels etc.

For some quick answers to your question, yes, you can rent a car and driver, but usually the only need for a car and driver in Beijing is for a visit to the Great Wall (either Mutianyu or Badaling). Your hotel can help arrange this, but usually it is around US$50 or less (but I'm sure others will correct if I am wrong), but your driver will not speak any English in all likelihood. The alternative is to hire a English speaking tourist guide as well. Not sure on the cost but probably still cheaper than paying for two people to cram into a minibus for a Grayline-type tour.

While the majority of Chinese do not speak any English, it's probably a safe bet that you can get by speaking English at major tourist sites. For sightseeing in Beijing proper, you really don't need to hire a driver. You do need to have the name of your destination written in Chinese characters though to show the driver. Your hotel can assist you on this.

Five days in Beijing is almost enough to see the main sites. October is a GREAT time to visit -- weather isn't bad at all, actually quite nice.

After Beijing, the three other most common destinations are
Shanghai
Xian
Guilin

More adventurous souls will venture to
Lhasa
Chengdu (panda reserves)
Yunnan province (ethnic minorities)

And even more off the beaten rack areas would include
Inner Mongolia
Silk Road towns (Dunhuang, Turpan, Urumqi, Kashgar)

Where else you visit really depends on your interests, time, and budget...

Taxi drivers, traders, supermarket cashiers etc will cheat you with the slightest opportunity. If you are happy to be cheated, then by all means "put a bit of money back into the local economy"; personally I would rather put the profits into the pockets of the multi-nationals.

People are not poor in Beijing by Asian standards. If you really wish to put "a bit of money back into the local economy", I suggest you do it in Burma where people are a lot more honest and deserving, despite being much poorer than people in Beijing.

BTW welcome to Flyertalk :)

Welcome to FT, Steve. As fallingasleep mentioned, we've discussed Beijing in this same forum quite a bit recently so I suggest you check out threads over the past 6 weeks or so (hell, go back an entire year, if you feel so inclined) in order to get caught up to speed.

As for your car hire suggestion, there really is no need. I actually think taxis have come a long way over the past 5-10 years and can't recall the last time anyone ever tried to cheat me (though, I will admit that I know the city pretty well; you can too if you keep a map handy). And, while there are poorer places out there, I have no problem supporting local merchants, many of whom are good people.

I think fallingasleep's day hire rates are pretty accurate, as long as you negotiate with a driver on your own; you can spend an entire day at Huanghua Great Wall for $50. However, hotels will almost certainly charge close to double that. Drop me an email when your dates approach, and I will forward you the numbers of some drivers that I've had good experiences with.

Like you, I also think there are better values out there than the big-name hotels, but in order to make a recommendation, I'd like to know a little more about your specific needs in terms of location and activities.

It was only slightly more than a year ago :

1) We took a taxi from the airport to the St Regis. When we almost reached the hotel, the driver turned the meter away from me and the fare shown on the meter more than doubled when we reached the hotel.

2) We negotiated with a taxi driver to drive us to the Great Wall and agreed on an all inclusive fare. On the way back, the driver insisted that we pay for the toll and refused to drive on if we didnt give in. When we arrived back at the hotel, he demanded for a higher fare and claimed that he was caught for speeding and we should pay for the "fine".

3) On the day I arrived in Beijing, I was unsure of the currency notes and enquired with the cashier at the Friendship Store when I was making payment. She realised that I was foreign and shortchanged me by around USD5 and quickly turned away as if she was busy with something else. I wasnt expecting to be cheated by an employee of a major store and only realised that I was cheated on my way back to the hotel.

4) All my friends and relatives from Malaysia complained about being cheated by traders in Beijing. When they hand over to the merchant a certain denomination note for payment, the merchant will claim that the note was of a smaller denomination when giving change.

I am not sure why all my friends, relatives and I had such bad experience in Beijing while many Flyertalkers reported that the taxi drivers etc in Beijing were honest :confused:

Could it be that they are honest with "gweilo" and are only dishonest with Asian tourists ?

No, the locals in Beijing (indeed, most of China) are equal-opportunity crooks, they will try to cheat any foreigner that they can. That said, taxis with meters are the one area -- in Beijing and Shanghai -- that I have NOT had problems with -- yet! But I am back there in two weeks, new opportunities for them.

In this instance, what did you do? I would have refused to pay the driver and just started walking towards my hotel. Is this a bad idea, would I be risking bodily injury by doing this?

From the 30 or so taxi rides I took there recently, one key tip is to avoid the black taxis. These are the guys who may (not always) try to earn the most money. The two-tone cabs and red cabs always charge the meter rate and are always very thankful if you happen to round up the fare with a tiny tip. But if you don't tip that's no big deal.

No, I wouldnt walk away without paying; not that I was afraid he would get physical (which he most probably would) but because I dont believe it would be right of me to deny him of the correct fare which most probably was a huge chunk of his day's takings.

He didnt drop us off right at the entrance of the hotel with the excuse that he took a wrong turning and went into the open carpark instead. I later realised that it was a deliberate action so that we couldnt seek the assistance of the hotel bell-person.

When we protested that the fare was too high, he offered a 20% "discount". I forgot how much the fare should have been and asked for a 40% "discount" which he accepted without hesitation since the carpark attendent was asking him to leave immediately. However, I later realised that I overpaid him by 20-30% :(

let's not confuse beijing with manila. when a disagreement arises, simply get a receipt, take down the driver's license number along with his company phone number, and let him know that you plan on calling his superiors to sort out the situation. 99 times out of 100, doing causes the driver to back down before you can even get the cap off of your pen.

if you don't feel comfortable going to bat on your own, let the guys at your hotel handle the situation for you. they know how much it should cost to get from the airport to their hotel in cabs of all price levels (and drivers recognize as much).

if i was ever in a situation where my taxi stopped short of my destination (i'd never heard of such happening in beijing prior to reading this thread), i'd have no problem jumping out on the spot, but i'd probably leave enough cash on the seat to cover the trip from a-to-bminus.

it's also worth noting that taxis occasionally get genuinely lost. when this happens, you can choose whether to pay the meter or to estimate the proper a-to-b fare, or go somewhere in the middle. in my younger days, i always took pride in teaching cabbies a lesson (i.e. don't pick up pax if you don't know where to take them), but i've become increasingly benevolent over the years (i now try to make snap character judgements when in the midst of getting lost, based on which i determine a payment strategy).

as an aside, for the first time ever, i ignored the ubiquitous warnings about the drivers that hang out in airport arrivals lobbies last week because the taxi queue was painfully long..... and everything worked out fine (even played a game of 2-on-2 with the driver and his sidekick)... so fine that i will test those waters again next time the situation arises.

bottom line; if you are smart, strong, and semi-alert, the horror stories needn't apply.

I may not be qualified to comment on this since we avoided taking taxis in Beijing after the 2 very unpleasant experience. However, we took a Black taxi (highest category) from the hotel to the airport, and the driver was honest and very professional.

Our bad experience were with the mid-category taxis (red and possibly blue/green). I seem to get the impression that the older drivers were more dishonest.

hmm... some of the grandpas that drove cabs we got into were the most honest drivers i've ever met (one of them was even grumbling that the young whippersnapper drivers were giving the profession a bad name, stopping outside of designated taxi zones to drop people off and not issuing receipts properly... it was quite funny! ;))

Just don't get in a cab without the meter on, and keep an eye on it. And I like Moondog's advice about getting a receipt and taking the company's phone number down.

In other cities, what one would usually be wary of is whether the taxi driver uses the meter, whether the meter has already been running before you board, whether he is going round in circles instead of the shortest route, whether you should pay for surcharges/tolls etc

I thought I was pretty alert when I boarded the taxi and insisted that he used the meter. The reason I knew something was amiss with the fare was because I was watching the meter during most of the journey. Was I supposed to know that the meter could double/triple in fare with some hidden buttons ? Was it my fault that I couldnt disguise the fact that I was a tourist ?

What really surprises me is the lack of warning here on FT on the unscrupulous taxi drivers in Beijing. I have heard horror stories before my visit but chose to ignore them based on the praises for Beijing taxi drivers that I have read here on FT. And when I tried to correct the inaccurate reportings here, my warning to others is suppressed with insinuations that its even relatively safe to use the services of the touts in the arrival hall :eek:

After discussing this subject with several people, I cant help but believe that an Asian is more likely to be ripped-off by a Beijing taxi driver compared to a "Gwei lo". Perhaps the taxi drivers feel that an Asian is less likely to lodge an official complaint to the authorities :confused:

Thanks for the advice!
 

Looks like I started quite a debate! But many thanks for the advice - we will dwell on it and then come back for more information if we may be so bold!

Although I woulnd't stake my life on it, I'm 99% sure that there are no fare-altering buttons on meters: I've logged over 3,000 cab rides in this city on my own and know many others that have done the same and have never heard of such + taxis are highly regulated in Beijing (I'm pretty sure all meters are government issued).

And I would honestly rank Beijing in the upper quartile with respect to taxis (there is a lot of data to chew on the the current travelbuzz thread on the topic).

As for the airport tote, it was a one-shot experience so I can't possibly advise others on that basis alone, but it's an experience I plan to repeat indefinitely until I get burned. I simply ignored (i.e. closed ears) the initial y400 offer and added y20 to my normal fare (I figured not having to wait 20 minutes was worth as much) and was in a car moments later; no questions asked; tolls deducted.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience. I'm not a 北京人 so I take no personal offence to your comments, but, as a resident, I do feel compelled to point out and justify that there is little to be afraid of in this city (well, save the pollution on certain days).