Help with Beijing please
 

My good lady and I are keen to visit Beijing as part of our holiday at the beginning of October. Current thoughts are 5 days there, train to Xi'an then on to ?????. She wants sun/beach and stuff so anybody got any ideas.

Secondly, is Beijing the kind of place where it would be practical/possible/affordable to hire a car and driver for the duration/few days? I'm thinking of a local with a car who has some English - from what I hear most people do not speak English at all. This way may be good for us and it would also put a bit of money back into the local economy instead of the pockets of a multi-national. What kind of costs are we talking about and is it safe?

Finally, hotel recommendations? Neither of us are keen on the big chains and like to meet local people. Within most countries visited we pretty much take a flier and trust our judgement. But I'm not sure about Beijing as it is so very "foreign" to us

Thanks very much for any advice


Any help much appreciated

Steve, welcome to Flyertalk.

When you are logged into Flyertalk, you can use the search function. You can do a basic search or an advance search. If you just type in "Beijing," you will see that there are a lot of posts on travel to China -- many related to the questions you have asked such as hotels etc.

For some quick answers to your question, yes, you can rent a car and driver, but usually the only need for a car and driver in Beijing is for a visit to the Great Wall (either Mutianyu or Badaling). Your hotel can help arrange this, but usually it is around US$50 or less (but I'm sure others will correct if I am wrong), but your driver will not speak any English in all likelihood. The alternative is to hire a English speaking tourist guide as well. Not sure on the cost but probably still cheaper than paying for two people to cram into a minibus for a Grayline-type tour.

While the majority of Chinese do not speak any English, it's probably a safe bet that you can get by speaking English at major tourist sites. For sightseeing in Beijing proper, you really don't need to hire a driver. You do need to have the name of your destination written in Chinese characters though to show the driver. Your hotel can assist you on this.

Five days in Beijing is almost enough to see the main sites. October is a GREAT time to visit -- weather isn't bad at all, actually quite nice.

After Beijing, the three other most common destinations are
Shanghai
Xian
Guilin

More adventurous souls will venture to
Lhasa
Chengdu (panda reserves)
Yunnan province (ethnic minorities)

And even more off the beaten rack areas would include
Inner Mongolia
Silk Road towns (Dunhuang, Turpan, Urumqi, Kashgar)

Where else you visit really depends on your interests, time, and budget...

Taxi drivers, traders, supermarket cashiers etc will cheat you with the slightest opportunity. If you are happy to be cheated, then by all means "put a bit of money back into the local economy"; personally I would rather put the profits into the pockets of the multi-nationals.

People are not poor in Beijing by Asian standards. If you really wish to put "a bit of money back into the local economy", I suggest you do it in Burma where people are a lot more honest and deserving, despite being much poorer than people in Beijing.

BTW welcome to Flyertalk :)

Welcome to FT, Steve. As fallingasleep mentioned, we've discussed Beijing in this same forum quite a bit recently so I suggest you check out threads over the past 6 weeks or so (hell, go back an entire year, if you feel so inclined) in order to get caught up to speed.

As for your car hire suggestion, there really is no need. I actually think taxis have come a long way over the past 5-10 years and can't recall the last time anyone ever tried to cheat me (though, I will admit that I know the city pretty well; you can too if you keep a map handy). And, while there are poorer places out there, I have no problem supporting local merchants, many of whom are good people.

I think fallingasleep's day hire rates are pretty accurate, as long as you negotiate with a driver on your own; you can spend an entire day at Huanghua Great Wall for $50. However, hotels will almost certainly charge close to double that. Drop me an email when your dates approach, and I will forward you the numbers of some drivers that I've had good experiences with.

Like you, I also think there are better values out there than the big-name hotels, but in order to make a recommendation, I'd like to know a little more about your specific needs in terms of location and activities.

It was only slightly more than a year ago :

1) We took a taxi from the airport to the St Regis. When we almost reached the hotel, the driver turned the meter away from me and the fare shown on the meter more than doubled when we reached the hotel.

2) We negotiated with a taxi driver to drive us to the Great Wall and agreed on an all inclusive fare. On the way back, the driver insisted that we pay for the toll and refused to drive on if we didnt give in. When we arrived back at the hotel, he demanded for a higher fare and claimed that he was caught for speeding and we should pay for the "fine".

3) On the day I arrived in Beijing, I was unsure of the currency notes and enquired with the cashier at the Friendship Store when I was making payment. She realised that I was foreign and shortchanged me by around USD5 and quickly turned away as if she was busy with something else. I wasnt expecting to be cheated by an employee of a major store and only realised that I was cheated on my way back to the hotel.

4) All my friends and relatives from Malaysia complained about being cheated by traders in Beijing. When they hand over to the merchant a certain denomination note for payment, the merchant will claim that the note was of a smaller denomination when giving change.

I am not sure why all my friends, relatives and I had such bad experience in Beijing while many Flyertalkers reported that the taxi drivers etc in Beijing were honest :confused:

Could it be that they are honest with "gweilo" and are only dishonest with Asian tourists ?

No, the locals in Beijing (indeed, most of China) are equal-opportunity crooks, they will try to cheat any foreigner that they can. That said, taxis with meters are the one area -- in Beijing and Shanghai -- that I have NOT had problems with -- yet! But I am back there in two weeks, new opportunities for them.

In this instance, what did you do? I would have refused to pay the driver and just started walking towards my hotel. Is this a bad idea, would I be risking bodily injury by doing this?

From the 30 or so taxi rides I took there recently, one key tip is to avoid the black taxis. These are the guys who may (not always) try to earn the most money. The two-tone cabs and red cabs always charge the meter rate and are always very thankful if you happen to round up the fare with a tiny tip. But if you don't tip that's no big deal.

No, I wouldnt walk away without paying; not that I was afraid he would get physical (which he most probably would) but because I dont believe it would be right of me to deny him of the correct fare which most probably was a huge chunk of his day's takings.

He didnt drop us off right at the entrance of the hotel with the excuse that he took a wrong turning and went into the open carpark instead. I later realised that it was a deliberate action so that we couldnt seek the assistance of the hotel bell-person.

When we protested that the fare was too high, he offered a 20% "discount". I forgot how much the fare should have been and asked for a 40% "discount" which he accepted without hesitation since the carpark attendent was asking him to leave immediately. However, I later realised that I overpaid him by 20-30% :(

let's not confuse beijing with manila. when a disagreement arises, simply get a receipt, take down the driver's license number along with his company phone number, and let him know that you plan on calling his superiors to sort out the situation. 99 times out of 100, doing causes the driver to back down before you can even get the cap off of your pen.

if you don't feel comfortable going to bat on your own, let the guys at your hotel handle the situation for you. they know how much it should cost to get from the airport to their hotel in cabs of all price levels (and drivers recognize as much).

if i was ever in a situation where my taxi stopped short of my destination (i'd never heard of such happening in beijing prior to reading this thread), i'd have no problem jumping out on the spot, but i'd probably leave enough cash on the seat to cover the trip from a-to-bminus.

it's also worth noting that taxis occasionally get genuinely lost. when this happens, you can choose whether to pay the meter or to estimate the proper a-to-b fare, or go somewhere in the middle. in my younger days, i always took pride in teaching cabbies a lesson (i.e. don't pick up pax if you don't know where to take them), but i've become increasingly benevolent over the years (i now try to make snap character judgements when in the midst of getting lost, based on which i determine a payment strategy).

as an aside, for the first time ever, i ignored the ubiquitous warnings about the drivers that hang out in airport arrivals lobbies last week because the taxi queue was painfully long..... and everything worked out fine (even played a game of 2-on-2 with the driver and his sidekick)... so fine that i will test those waters again next time the situation arises.

bottom line; if you are smart, strong, and semi-alert, the horror stories needn't apply.

I may not be qualified to comment on this since we avoided taking taxis in Beijing after the 2 very unpleasant experience. However, we took a Black taxi (highest category) from the hotel to the airport, and the driver was honest and very professional.

Our bad experience were with the mid-category taxis (red and possibly blue/green). I seem to get the impression that the older drivers were more dishonest.

hmm... some of the grandpas that drove cabs we got into were the most honest drivers i've ever met (one of them was even grumbling that the young whippersnapper drivers were giving the profession a bad name, stopping outside of designated taxi zones to drop people off and not issuing receipts properly... it was quite funny! ;))

Just don't get in a cab without the meter on, and keep an eye on it. And I like Moondog's advice about getting a receipt and taking the company's phone number down.

In other cities, what one would usually be wary of is whether the taxi driver uses the meter, whether the meter has already been running before you board, whether he is going round in circles instead of the shortest route, whether you should pay for surcharges/tolls etc

I thought I was pretty alert when I boarded the taxi and insisted that he used the meter. The reason I knew something was amiss with the fare was because I was watching the meter during most of the journey. Was I supposed to know that the meter could double/triple in fare with some hidden buttons ? Was it my fault that I couldnt disguise the fact that I was a tourist ?

What really surprises me is the lack of warning here on FT on the unscrupulous taxi drivers in Beijing. I have heard horror stories before my visit but chose to ignore them based on the praises for Beijing taxi drivers that I have read here on FT. And when I tried to correct the inaccurate reportings here, my warning to others is suppressed with insinuations that its even relatively safe to use the services of the touts in the arrival hall :eek:

After discussing this subject with several people, I cant help but believe that an Asian is more likely to be ripped-off by a Beijing taxi driver compared to a "Gwei lo". Perhaps the taxi drivers feel that an Asian is less likely to lodge an official complaint to the authorities :confused:

Thanks for the advice!
 

Looks like I started quite a debate! But many thanks for the advice - we will dwell on it and then come back for more information if we may be so bold!

Although I woulnd't stake my life on it, I'm 99% sure that there are no fare-altering buttons on meters: I've logged over 3,000 cab rides in this city on my own and know many others that have done the same and have never heard of such + taxis are highly regulated in Beijing (I'm pretty sure all meters are government issued).

And I would honestly rank Beijing in the upper quartile with respect to taxis (there is a lot of data to chew on the the current travelbuzz thread on the topic).

As for the airport tote, it was a one-shot experience so I can't possibly advise others on that basis alone, but it's an experience I plan to repeat indefinitely until I get burned. I simply ignored (i.e. closed ears) the initial y400 offer and added y20 to my normal fare (I figured not having to wait 20 minutes was worth as much) and was in a car moments later; no questions asked; tolls deducted.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience. I'm not a 北京人 so I take no personal offence to your comments, but, as a resident, I do feel compelled to point out and justify that there is little to be afraid of in this city (well, save the pollution on certain days).

In the case of the airport and/or hotel taxis, the keys to not getting ripped off are (1) to confirm that the meter has been reset when you get in and (2) get a copy of the receipt (and the driver's name and license number if necessary).

Of course, if the driver takes a roundabout route, it is hard to know if you are new to the city. However, don't freak out also just because you're on some highway that you've never seen before. Beijing has five (or is it six now?) ring roads, and taking them can sometimes be a faster albeit longer route.

At the end of the day, taxis in Beijing are so cheap anyway...it is not worth getting too stressed over it.

Oh yeah, a few years back, I was ripped off by a taxi (which was waiting outside the Holiday Inn Crowne Plaza -- a foreigner hotel if there ever was one) on an airport ride. The taxi driver was really friendly and took the normal route. Only when we arrived did I discover that the fare was 3x what it should have been. I challenged the driver but without concrete proof other than the ridiculously high fare, he denied any wrongdoing (surprise, surprise) but agree to accept less than what was shown on the meter. Still, it was about 30 kuai more than it should have been. In hindsight, I should have given the driver nothing and walked out and threatened to call the police if he tried to stop me.

we're really zeroing in on subtopicopia here, but just to set the record straight: 6th ring should be complete within the next year or so, BUT there is no 1st ring.... therefore, there are currently around 4.5 ring roads.

what about the moat around the Forbidden City? :p

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So when all is said and done, what is a rough estimate of what a taxi should cost from the airport to one of the hotels, say the Sheraton?

RMB 90-100 but the driver is going to curse at you in Mandarin for such a short ride :)

I think you could get there for under 60, including tolls, as long as you take a 1.6. It's true that cabbies hate dropping anywhere north of the Kerry Centre (from the airport) because they have to queue for ~4 hours just take to a crack at an arriving passenger, but don't let that scare you; they are required to take you to your chosen destination.

FYI, many Sheraton-bound persons get taken to the Hilton because the Chinese name for Hilton sounds a lot like "Sheraton". To avoid such confusion, be sure to refer to the Sheraton by its proper name (Great Wall Hotel).

Thanks for the advice - I'll remember the "proper" hotel name.

This happened to me in Nanjing a few years ago...Was booked at the Sheraton Nanjing, and the cabbie took us to the Hilton. 'Hilton' in Chinese is something like "Xi Er Dung" (SEE-air-dung)...After much drama, we just had him drop us at the Hilton, and the good folks at the Hilton actually DROVE US to the Sheraton in a hotel car, free of charge.

Anyway, I now know better--not just for this instance, but if I'm unfamiliar with the hotel and I don't know the Chinese name and street, it's always a good idea to send an e-mail to the hotel and ask them for directions (or at least the hotel name) in Chinese...Print it off and take it with you.

Hello everyone,

We will be arriving in Beijing on Oct. 1 (apparently a bad idea, but somewhat cast in stone now) and I am wondering if anyone has used, or heard of <http://www.sinohotelguide.com/travel/chauffeur.html> or something similar? With the National Holiday I am hoping to pre-arrange as much as possible to try and avoid some of the possible chaos. I appreciate any suggestions.

Thank you.
Rothsix

The trick to National Day in Beijing is to avoid places that Chinese tourists like. That means:

-eating duck at Xiao Wangfu's instead of Quanjude
-going to a great wall site other than Badaling, Mutianyu, or Simatai
-laying low from Gugong, Summer Palace, Temple of Heaven until the holiday is over, if possible.
-if the leaves are in bloom Xiangshan is a must, but I wouldn't go there during National Day. There is another park nearby that offers similar natural features, but isn't famous
-spend some time at the universities. They should be relatively peaceful and the area is quite interesting.

I wouldn't worry too much about cabs or hotel bookings.

Just there, no taxi problems
 

Hello:

As non-Chinese speaking tourists, neither my wife nor I had any problem with the Beijing taxis on our visit about three weeks ago - and we took quite a few of them.

Even traveling separately, no problems. However, we did each have maps of the city which we kept open and tried to follow along during the ride. Only once did I think I was going the wrong way, but then I saw it was only a slightly longer way and likely much faster as it was on one of the ring roads.

I had read most of the comments on FT about the Beijing taxis before our trip, so I paid attention to the meter, and I always carried small change so I could pay exact fare (or less if I thought I needed to) - but again, the problem situations never came up.

Have a good time!

Don't be scared of Taxis in Beijing. They very rarely rip people off. Beijing is one of the safest cities in the world.

Enjoy barganing with people for goods you want and pay a price you can accept and don't worry if its the absolutely lowest price. These people don't make that much scratch.

For tropical after Xian head to Hainan Island and the resort town of Sanya. Its got the only real beach resort in China.

Enjoy a great country!

I used Sinohotel to book my hotel in Beijing (Beijing Hao Yuan House...great little place) and I used their driver from the airport when I arrived. He met me with a sign with my name on it and was very courteous, rolling my bag to the car for me and making sure I was settled in at the front desk before leaving. He didn't speak any English but I felt very safe and comfortable with him. However, after spending a few days in Beijing and overall having an excellent experience with the taxis, I would take a taxi from the hotel if I returned to Beijing, although I don't know how the holiday affects things. My taxi experience was marred only by my very last cab ride, which wasn't even supposed to happen but my flight back from Hong Kong was delayed by 5+ hours and my driver couldn't wait for me.

The cab driver took me the most direct route, but the car did not have a visible meter charge. There was a meter, and I saw her turn it on and heard the printing noise it makes, but I couldn't see any lit numbers. Once she stopped the car she stopped the meter and gave me the total verbally, and it looked like it was off the top of her head. It sounded like too much, but I wasn't sure since I hadn't taken a cab on that route before, so I asked to see the receipt. She handed me a receipt that had the fare she quoted me, so I paid. The next day, I was riding to the airport with an expat who told me I paid too much. When I told him what happened, he asked me if the receipt she gave me was for that ride or for another ride, perhaps from another time or another day. Good question...I had no idea.

He recommended a driver to me and my friend which we used for a day to the Great Wall, shopping, running errands, and to the airport for our HK sidetrip for only 400 RMB (less than $50). She was also scheduled to pick me up when I was delayed returning from HK for only 60 RMB (about $7). If you can find a private driver like that, it's great -- she was very friendly, very reliable, and very affordable!

The other taxi trips I had were fine -- very courteous, efficient drivers, including one who stopped the meter and went out of his way to ask the uniformed security guards at the apartment complex I stayed at for a few nights how to get to the building I needed. I speak no Chinese, so I had a guidebook with the names of tourist destinations written in Chinese. I also had a piece of paper or cards with the name of my lodging (hotel and then apartment) in Chinese. Finally, I downloaded several other things in Chinese to my Palm using Repligo from this site - http://www.beijingtraveltips.com/, and I would just pull up the info and show it to the driver. I'm so glad I was prepared with that.

-Sabrina

My wife and I spent nearly two weeks in Beijing in March, and we've been to China at least a dozen times. We've never had any problems with taxis, other than some drivers in Beijing didn't know where our destinations were. I should note that my wife is Chinese and speaks Mandarin. However, my experience with cabs was the same whether I went with her, or took them alone, including cabs to and from the airport.

This is exactly what I warned about a few posts earlier in this thread. My guess is that the receipt was correct in terms of time and date but that it had already been running when you got into the cab so the bill was inflated.

Always visually confirm that the meter has been reset. Of course, this is good advice wherever and whenever you get into a taxi.

Taxi to the St. Regis
 

We will be staying ther for 5 nights in August. Can anyone tell me if there is a Kisosk outside of customs that you can approach for help with a taxi. I know both the St. Regis and Westin in Shanghai have kiosks and they take you out to the curb an put you in a taxi to their hotels and give the drivers instructions. Is the same available at PEK?

Yes and no. When you exit the terminal, you'll see a line for taxis with a uniformed person managing the process. Ignore the touts inside the terminal, as well as the drivers who approach you as you cross over to the taxi line. When it's your turn (my experiience was that it was a very short wait for a cab), the uniformed person will hand you a little booklet that explains taxi laws in a variety of languages, including English, and direct you to a cab. It is a very, very good idea to have the name and address of the hotel written in Chinese characters as very few Beijing taxi drivers speak English. If you're staying at a more obscure hotel, it's probably a good idea to have the telephone number and cross streets -- I've found that Beijing taxi drivers are not as knowledgable about their city as I'm used to in other places (including in China).

imre, the wait has been 20+ minutes at 5p +/- 1 hour. as such, i've used touts 3 times in the last month (had never done so before) and all worked out well. however, a colleague -who is less pushy than myself- had a bad experience on my advice two weeks ago; basically, they threw an extra guy in his car, went to wudaokou, AND tried to extort him for more money when he got to his destination. fortunately, he called me in the midst of all this and i had the police meet him at the hotel; total fare = zero.

as scary as all that may seem, i remain confident that it's possible to play the touts and win as long as you aren't clueless (i can't even venture to imagine how i would have reacted when the second passenger was onloaded, let alone the wudaokou detour). bottom line, i will continue to use those guys during rush hour, in spite of the fact that many are not good people.

you've already hads tons of advice, but i'll add just two thoughts:

1. the airport taxi situation is confusing at best. so for the first time, plan to get picked up in advance and sit there in the arrivals (post customs) area, and don't talk to anyone and don't move until the person arrives with something with your name on it, period. next time at the airport, you'll be fine with a taxi.

2. metered taxis are just not a problem. i've taken them innumerable times and never had an issue (other than honestly getting lost looking for my obscure destinations a time or two). even if you think you've got some mandarin, get where you are going written down, and hand it to the driver. if the meter isn't on in 1 block, just point to it.

I was in Beijing last October for 3 weeks. I took metered cabs at least 2 dozen times, sometimes late in the evening. I didn't encouter any problem.

There were a couple of times the drivers had no idea of the places I wanted to go; but I didn't completely blame them. I previously visited Beijing in 1995, 1996 1998 and 2001. Each time, I was surprised to see how much the city had changed. The transformation is truly amazing.

I visited Bangkok and Beijing on the same trip 10 years ago. Then, I would say Bangkok was a more modern city; now I don't think it is even close (To be fair, I think Bangkok may have a better airport).

I have just returned from a few days in Beijing. I had arranged to be collected from the airport by my hotel (renaissance beijing) asthis was included in the rate. The pickup and subsequent drop off at the end of my stay worked perfectly. In my case they waited for me outside customs. I did notice that for some hotels (the kerry center?) they were picking up people inside the customs hall which I found unusual but I'm sure was useful to their clients.

I also used taxis throughtout my stay and had no 'meter' problems. On my last night the taxi driver found the complex where my restaurant was located but not the actual building itself. With some help from the local security guard we found th restauarant. Other than that they were all perfect experiences. I speak no Chinese (well excpet for hello and thank you !) so relied on the small cards that my hotel gave me. In addition my hotel would write the name and address of my destination on the card to hand to the doorman who liaised with the taxi driver. Systems worked well with the exception noted above. Have a great stay, Beijing is a fascinating place.

p.s thx to Phlwookie, Moondog, AZ and Sabrina for their pre trip advice