What's with the subway begging in BA?
 

With taxi rides edging higher, and the city still feeling relatively safe, I found myself taking more subway rides than I had in the recent past. The subway is fine (and dirt cheap at 90 centavos), but one trend I've noticed in the increase in begging/soliciting on the subway cars. You usually can't go more than 5 minutes without someone asking for something.

The worst is on the commuter lines. I took the train from Retiro out to Tigre (cost: 1.10 pesos!) and there were about a dozen solicitations in the 45 minute trip. My wife and I started betting how many minutes it would be to the next beggar. None of these solicitations felt dangerous, but the constant stream of requests makes it a tiring trip.

It all reminded me of my youth in NYC, where similar things happened until the mayor said "no more." It seems like it's more than time for the police to do something, but I get the impression that in Buenos Aires, the gov't is very reluctant to stop anyone from doing anything. It's a bad call.

You are correct.... its especially bad on the Mitre line you are mentioning. The new mayor of Buenos Aires is trying to do a lot of things.... but the bloody Kirchner regime that controls the Federal Government is doing everything in its power to make sure that Macri (the Bs. Aires mayor) does not succeed... as he is seen as a potential candidate for the Presidency sometime down the road... its all messy and dirty politics. Also, there is the issue of jurisdiction, as the Railways are in Federal Jurisdiction.... so its all very complicated. Bottom line... the beggars are a problem.

Right, the worst IS the Mitre line (new beggar every 5 minutes!). But even in the regular subte system, the begging can be pretty crazy. At one stop, I needed to buy my 90 centavo ticket and there's a beggar standing right in front of the the ticket window with his cup on the counter (obviously hoping passengers will throw their 10 centavo change in his cup). There's a police officer standing less than 10 feet away and doing nothing to discourage this.

In NYC, the gov't found that cracking down on such behaviors strengthened civil society and reduced overall crime. The most famous example was eliminating the "squee-gee guys" who would wash your car windows (whether you wanted them to or not) at red lights. At least BA's current version of this is more pleasant: the guys in the street do a little magic trick in front of you as you wait for the light to change!

There's just a fine line in a city between order and chaos. I hope the gov't realizes that tourists generally like order. Nobody likes to be constantly hassled.

Happens everywhere from Beijing to Birmingham to Buenos Aires.

I haven't been on the BsAs subway so can't comment but I imagine being constantly pestered in a enclosed space isn't much fun. At least on the streets one can avoid it to a certain extent.

Probably not quite as tiring as for the destitute people who have to walk up and down the train carriages all day to collect money in order to clothe and feed their family

What would you like the police to do? Wave a magic wand and eliminate poverty overnight? Arrest the beggars and "disappear" them? Or hit them with a fine so they need to beg some more or steal in order to pay it?

Begging happens the world over. In London, it was prolific on the subway at one time and yes, there were professional beggars who weren't "homeless and hungry" at all. I'm not defending everyone begging but Argentina is a different story - there are lots of people in genuine need and no effective welfare system in place unlike in the UK. If coming face to face with poverty is so "tiring", I suggest you stick to your taxis.

I'm sure such self-righteous beliefs make you feel better about yourself, but it's no way to run a city. I've lived it. It creates a city that nobody wants to live in. And then everyone -- including the poor -- are a lot worse off.

Self-righteousness has nothing to do with it. I agree with you that the city is badly run and there are lots of serious problems that need sorting out ASAP. That's something the government and Macri need to sort out though - don't blame the beggars!

As I said before...What exactly do you want the police to do to solve this problem?

Just be thankful for those trips on the Subte when there is actually room for the hawkers to operate :D

On the D line, there are often so many passengers there's no room to move. If you want a seat you have to rush the cars at the ends of the line. And no air conditioning. And summer is approaching ...

John

Tell them they can't beg or solicit. Arrest them if they persist.

It worked in NYC, which had many of the same issues in the '70s. There's been a ton of stuff written about how NYC made itself more livable, and much of that stuff started by getting rid of the petty annoyances and crime.

This is a polite reminder that most people when visiting BA have a "first world" experience" and do not realize that the country as a whole has a lot of severe poverty, the likes of which do NOT exist in the first world. What worked in NYC in the 70s will not work in BA in 2008. Further, if a percentage of those folks end up with enough money to eat, it is a "good thing," no matter how annoying or what a nuisance it may be, and I don't disagree with the nuisance aspect.

Honestly, you don't see that much true poverty as a tourist in BA these days (different from, say, 2003, when lots of people were collecting cardboard on the streets). Yes, "the poor" are obviously worse off than the poor in "first world" countries, but as far as int'l poverty goes, Argentina doesn't make it on the list. I think the country's main economic woe is that things are stacked against the middle class: there's no incentive to save, so you spend what you earn. This actually makes BA appear more prosperous than it really is.

If you don't take the subway, avert your glance at some of the shantytowns on the outskirts of town, and ignore the obvious public infrastructure problems like broken pavement and such, Buenos Aires can still pass for a declining but important European city.

Sounds like San Francisco in terms of the amount of begging that goes on, in general.

Sound like many US cities. I was in BA in October and it looked and felt more "rich" than NYC. Far less homeless people, trash on the streets, and inferior roads.

Granted, I did not take the subways but the NYC subways have people begging constantly (a good deal of it shams) despite the city's long ongoing efforts to stop it. Also, I admit that being a tourist does not give one a true view of a city per se.

The "cartoneros" are still plentiful and can be seen in the streets every day.

I guess it depends on what type of tourist one is. If it's in a chauffer-driven car from one tourist spot to the expensive restaurant to the next tourist spot and back to the 5* hotel, I agree that you're not going to see much true poverty. Walk around the streets for a while, see the real Buenos Aires and you'll still find plenty. You only have to scratch the surface.

Near Retiro is an area where you'll see poverty and next to the railway line as well.
Cardboard collecting and rummaging in the rubbish dump happens in my town so I can assure you it still happens in the capital as well. I do know a very civil chap who makes a comfortable living off of collecting cardboard so it doesn't necessarily mean the collector is in a poverty situation.