ATM Problems in Argentina
 

I'm currently back in the US, but I was reading a thread today on a local Argentine BB where several posters have reported problems with the Banelco ATM network in Argentina that started last weekend. The Banelco network is affiliated with the VISA/Plus system, and probably the most widespread.

One of the posters talked to a Banelco representative today and was told that all VISA/Plus Network cards in the Banelco network will now only allow a maximum withdrawal of AR$100 (~US$32) per operation and a maximum of 3 operations per day. This is apparently being done for "our" protection, in case of card theft. [I can't see how allowing 3 transactions/day will help in this regard ...]

Apparently the MasterCard/Cirrus network is still able to dispense larger sums (but I don't have any details).

Up until a couple of years ago, the Banelco network would dispense AR$800/day, but then that was lowered to AR$500/day (even if your card has a higher US$ limit than this).

Any savings by using a Banelco ATM will be eaten up by the foreign ATM transaction fees imposed by US banks (usually US$3-5/transaction, unless you're lucky enough to have a fee-free card).

I'll keep an eye on the problem and report back if there are updates or a resolution.

The next best alternative in the meantime (if you don't have a MasterCard-branded ATM card), is to use one of the major banks. Foreign exchanges transactions are possible in the later morning (I think it's after 11:00 am), and you will need to present your passport. Usually there's not any problem with exchanging amounts up to US$1000 - the only problem I've encountered was at the PNB Paribas branch close to Gaucho100K's wine store, which only allowed me to exchange US$300, if I remember correctly (and I only went inside the bank since the ATM network was down at that time). The last couple of times I've used a bank, I've been asked to show them the immigration entry stamp in my passport.

So if you're flying into EZE, the best place to get pesos is at the Banco de la Nácion, which is directly on the right just before you exit customs. Remember to ask for some small bills and peso coins, since taxi/remise drivers don't carry much change.

Hope this helps.

John

John, great post. Ive know of the limitations on the Banelco network, but my experience with the Cirrus network and specifically with the BNP Paribas bank is that it will give you up to AR$3000, or USD 1000 per day. I havent used my US based ATM in the last 60 days or so, and perhaps things have changed recently, but as I say... Ive been able to get those amounts from my US checking accounts with no issues. FWIW, my US bank is Bank of America, and my card has all possible logos on the back so I guess it works with both Cirrus and Visa Plus and a host of other systems.

I understand that there are a couple of "new" internet banks that offer special ATMs with custom-tailored daily limits. It seems that these banks are able to bypass local regulations on daily limits... at least this is what Ive heard from folks posting on Trip Advisor. I will dig up that information and re-post it here once I find it.

Cheers
Alex (Gaucho100K)

Alex -

I've only been able to use my Wells Fargo and Schwab ATM cards on the VISA/Plus (Banelco) network. The cards have the VISA-affiliated logos on them (not Cirrus). At least with my Schwab card, I get all ATM fees reimbursed, so I've been able to get the interbank exchange rate.

John

Gaucho100K:

$1,000 on an ATM seems very high. I never got more than $400 to $500 in a foreign country, mostly less than this. BTW, I talked with my banker not to put a limit on my account for ATM withdrawals. I was also told, the bank who runs the ATM also sets a limit for withdrawals!
To be safe, I always carry 3 ATM cards from 3 different banks.
In Buenos Aires I had only trouble with a Citi Card at Citi Bank, went next door to the ATM from Banco Gallicia and got the ARS.

Banelco Update
 

Banelco have admitted they made a mistake in programming their ATM network, as reported in the BA Herald:

... Sources at Banelco, Argentina’s electronic funds transfer company, told the Herald that the glitch arose because a ruling by Plus had been misinterpreted by local officials and that this had resulted in the capped withdrawals yesterday.
"The glitch is being worked on and the system should allow tourists to make up to three withdrawals a day of up to 300 pesos each," the source said...

http://www.buenosairesherald.com/bus...hideIntro=true

Local expats have reported that larger transaction amounts are still possible through the LINK network (at least AR$1000).

See http://www.redlink.com.ar/Cajeros/index.htm for a search engine for ATM locations.

These are some of the banks that have ATM machines that can connect to the LINK network:

BANCA NAZIONALE DEL LAVORO S.A.
BANCO DE LA CIUDAD DE BUENOS AIRES
BANCO DE LA PROVINCIA DE BUENOS AIRES
BNP PARIBAS

John

Hi USAFAN-- as I post above, I have been able to draw AR$3000 using a BNP Paribas Link ATM machine, and I bank with Bank of America. I dont know if the limits have since been changed, but next time I use the card I will report back.

I thought I'd update the situation concerning VISA/Plus ATM transactions in Argentina.

This last week I've only been able to withdraw ARS$300/transaction (but since I've not needed much cash, I've not tested if I can do three transactions/day). Unfortunately I don't have a LINK-associated debit card, so I can't report on any limitations on that network.

I'm still waiting for the transactions to post electronically - I made mine on a Schwab card associated with my Schwab One account. As I mentioned previously I get all ATM fees waived on this card. and the rate of exchange is very close (or better) to the OANDA FX interbank rate.

http://www.oanda.com/convert/classic

John

Just bumping this thread as a reminder.

Some folks have also reported ARS$300/transaction limitations on the LINK network. That limitation is still in place on the Banelco/VISA Plus network.

John

I was testing the number of allowed transactions on the VISA Plus/Banelco Network today in BsAs, and can confirm that only 3 transactions/day are permitted (even if they are for small amounts of cash).

Two of the transactions were made from the same machine about 15 minutes apart. So if you want more than 300 pesos using a VISA-branded card, you will need to make multiple transactions. Depending on your bank's fees, currency exchange at a local bank may be cheaper. Also remember that ATM machines in popular places, especially on the weekend, may run out of cash.

John

Where are the BNP Paribas machines located? Do they still waive the fee for BofA customers?

Puerto Madero has one, right behind the Hilton Hotel. Just go in the alley between Asia da Cuba and the Hilton Hotel and you'll see it. (This was my preferred place to get cash when the correlito hit and the rest of the machines in the city seemed to be out of cash. ;) )

There are others within a short cab ride distance away too:

http://www.bnpparibas.com.ar/es/home/agences.asp#

Kathy,,, don't know where you are in BsAs. but I use one on Callao y Guido never had problem withdrawing 2-3000 ar.

Kathy, there is also a BNP Paribas branch a block away from Alex's wine store:

Fray Justo Santa Maria de Oro 2923

John

Indeed.... the only catch for this ATM is that your best bet is to use it at 4pm, after the branch fills it up as its a very popular cash-mashine and by the end of the day its usually empty.

Thanks to all for the responses, and thanks for the link above.

The nearest BNP to where I'll be staying is near Plaza San Martin on av. Santa Fe.

As for the branch near Alex's wine store, I believe I tried that one a year or two ago, without success. :( Perhaps the explanation is that it was empty, as suggested by Alex? :confused:

I usually withdraw around ARP 3.000 with my German Maestro EC Card. I often have problems getting in in the microcentro, but somewhere closer to where I stay (Barrio Norte, Santa Fe around 2800-3200) I never encountered a problem with any of the banks (usually Patagonia, Rio, HSBC).

Banelco $300 ARP limit still applies per transaction. However, I was able to make five transactions at the ATM when I needed to get out $900 ARP (about $300 USD). The only problem is that I was charged the $5 USD transcation fee for each of those! I'm going to try to find a BNP Paribas to get my next months rent out.

ATM Problems in Argentina
===================

What about Mendoza? Are there any ATMs from foreign banks where I get >=900 ARS with a max $5 fee?

Thanks.

If you use BOA call them up and a CRS should take some if not all of the service fees off for you

Most of the foreign banks in Argentina are not well represented in Mendoza. One notable exception if HSBC, as they recently bought out the Banca Nazionale del Lavoro and gained a very impressive branch network in all cities... but, as far as I know, CitiBank is not in Mendoza although Im not 100% certain. I will dig for more info. and report back.

Citibank, Mendoza
 

Citibank is indeed in Mendoza. I use them all the time on my trips there. It's on the Sarmiento peatonal - Av. Sarmiento 20.

A list of Citibank locations in the interior.

Gaucho100K & Cada 90 Diaz:

Thanks!

I checked both on the Internet. Looks like HSBC has a Banelco ATM. I'll try Citi. I arrive in the evening from SCL at the airport ... I may get some ARS there too.

Cada 90 dias, thanks for correcting my mistake on Citibank´s availability. Welcome to FT, look forward to your posts.

Are you based in Santiago de Chile...?

I got 1,000 ARS at the Banco de Nation ATM at the airport in Mendoza.
Thanks for all other help. And special thanks to Gaucho100K for starting and supporting those Argentina threads.^

It has been reported that Mastercard-branded ATM cards (at least those issued in the US) are now subject to the same withdrawl restrictions that were placed on VISA-branded cards a year ago. Apparently this took place on April 3. There has been a report that Citi cards (at a Citi ATM) are not subject to the same restrictions.

It's unclear, as yet, if there is a restriction on the number of transactions that can be done on one day (as their seems to be with VISA-branded cards, at least in my experience). It is possible to do multiple consecutive withdrawls from the same ATM machine, but be aware that that may trigger a security lock from the issuing bank in the US. I had that happen with my Schwab/VISA ATM card, but that was quickly resolved when I called Schwab customer service in the US.

So folks, unless you have a bank with low per-transaction charges, or that reimburses you for Argentine bank charges, your best bet is to exchange dollars at a commercial bank.

John

John is, as always, right on. Doing multiple transactions at the same ATM one right after the other can be scary, especially since most ATMs in EZE are still the older machine version where the ATM actually swallows your card... if the machine or the protocol that the issuing bank thinks there may be a security issue, it may choose to swallow your card. With all the hassles this involves, I think its best to come down with some USD or Euro cash.

Argentine ATM's
 

I have heard that the best ATM's to use as those with a sign saying "LINK" in a green circle. At least in January 2008, I had no problems with those, getting as much as 1150 pesos. (Deliberably chose an odd amount to get some small bills, too.) For me, I never can exceed the equivalent of $400 USD per day because that is what my American bank limits me to.

For example, there is a Banco de Nacion "LINK" ATM right inside El Calafate's airport. That worked fine there and elsewhere.

Bowgie - that was true until last week. Now everyone with a VISA- or Mastercard-branded card has been affected. Germans also have reported to same problems with their cards. These issues arise from restrictions imposed by Argentine banks and their network affiliates.

John

It's probably a good idea to call your issuing bank before you come to Argentina to let them know of your travel plans. However, be aware that sometimes (at least with credit cards), that security locks on cards are often computer-generated without human involvement and are based on unusual activity.

My bank (Schwab) declined my withdrawl at a Banelco ATM in Argentina but thankfully returned my card. I was making multiple AR$60 withdrawls to obtain small bills. I was able to have Schwab customer service annotate my account so that I've not had a problem since.

John

The US Embassy in Buenos Aires is apparently aware of the situation regarding credit card withdrawls on foreign bank cards via all networks, and is investigating the matter.

They've promised to look into and report on the matter latter this month in the American Citizen Services newsletter (available on their web site).

Presumably embassy employees have also been affected by this situation, not to mention getting angry calls from US citizens resident or visiting Argentina.

John

I've had no problem getting 1200+ pesos out of Citibank machines, with a Paypal MC. I last withdrew from the one on Florida (between Viamonte & Cordoba, I think), last week.

Don't wait until late in the day to take money out. I tried another ATM at Banco Patagonia, across from where I had lunch, and it just rejected it when I wanted 1200 pesos.

So, at about 4:30pm, I hit the same Citibank on Florida, and each ATM gave me an error. I wasn't sure if the ATM system was down, but tried the last ATM, just in case, and got out my 1240 pesos. I guess the other two machines were out of money already! I've heard of problems on weekends, but not weekdays.

I can regularly get up to $2000 from the Citibank ATMs, but thats by using my Citibank Argentina issued card.

Any news on this matter?

I have been in La Cumbre, Córdoba some 3 weeks ago, where I live half of the time besides Germany and could only withdrwaw 320,- pesos a time, but many times/day with my German Maestro card.
Either from a Banco Nación (Link) or a Banco Provincia de Córdoba (Banelco).

I had talked to people from Banelco (they had no clue..) and Link in BA, latter told me that this limit was imposed in Argentina by Cirrus as of April 1st.
First 300,- pesos, than risen to 320,-.
It is a mess as my wife and kids living there normally withdraws 2 times 2.500,- pesos/month (which is our daily limit on our Germany bank of 500,- EUR at a cost of 5,- EUR/withdrawal) and now has to withdraw about 16 times/month, costing 16x5,- EUR!

As of what I was told by MasterCard in the US and Germany, Maestro does not belong to them any longer (?).

My Bank in Germany had no clue about this, is checking since about 3 weeks, but showed signs of being willing to reduce the fees.

1MIO....:

I have had some problems with Citibank in Recoleta....even with a US Citi Bank ATM card. Never with Banco Nation.

You may open an account in Argentina and wire transfer the funds.
My German bank charges

Max: E 12.50 + E 5.00 Swift + E 2.50 Conv. = E 20.00 for wires up to 12,500 E.

1MioFlight-- sorry to hear about your troubles... if your family lives in Cordoba and you also spend a reasonable time there, I think that the above advice to perhaps open an account at some local bank may be the way to go... alas, please note that there is paperwork involved and also every time you wire funds down you will also have to fill out papers and then have to convert your Euros to Pesos... even if you want to withdraw Dollars from your local account. I dont know how many times a year you yourself come down, but maybe its best for you to be a cash mule of sorts and come down with the max. USD10,000 allowable by law and just open a safety deposit box.

Also, please remember that operating in Euros in Argentina is more expensive than other foreign currencies, as all FX transactions are cross-referenced to the dolar.... so in the end, if you have an inexpensive way to source USD cash in Europe then this would be the best solution to feed your Cordoba safety-deposit box.... but then, you run dollar risk and its possible continued weakness against the Euro....... ahhhh so many things to consider... :D

Hope this helps somewhat.

Gaucho100K:

I just checked my bank in Germany. I could wire (ON-LINE?) ARS (or US-$) from my German Euro account to a bank in Argentina. What is the problem? Just asking ... I still remember that you have been in the financial business in your "first life".
BTW, instead of bringing notes/cash, he could ask the German bank for an "Order Scheck" .... a secure bank check, which can be deposited in a local bank account.

USAFAN, Gaucho100K, tks for the hints, etc.

Checks and transfers are no solution as we (mainly my wife) use the card there like here in Germany, only that now it costs half a fortune.

La Cumbre in Córdoba is not BA in terms of being able to cash in checks, etc.

I've lived almost all my life in BA and Córdoba...It'll be a long time until Argentina sees another bank account from me again after 2001/2002..., if at all.

I was just wondering why the limit on foreign (just?) ATM cards was imposed in Argentina as all threads I've seen on the I-net these weeks regarding this do not conclude with a reasonable explanation, besides devaluation talks and speculations out there...

Nevertheless, I've ordered and already received a Mastercard credit card on our german bank account for my wife. That will solve 50% of the problem for her down there.

From everything I understand, the people running the ATM networks want more money, and weren't happy with the fee they got. So they make you take out many transactions, so they get more money.

I was fairly satisfied that I could get out $400 from Citibank. (That was my daily limit, so I never tried for more than that)

Hello USAFAN-- Im not saying that wiring funds will be a problem.... and its certainly possible to wire funds down to Argentina, be it online as you correctly state, or through a normal teller transaction. The issue is that the "problems" will start when you approach a local bank and want to clear those funds and withdraw them. You will have to be prepared to fill out paperwork, explain in detail where the money comes from... its not all automatic and straight-forward as it may be to issue an outgoing wire from your bank. The reasons for this are various... of course, your local bank knows who you are (after all, you have an account with them)... but here one needs to understand that the bank receiving the funds may not know you well, may need to verify various things.... after all, there are nowadays more and more controlls & international regulations on $$$ laundering & other related issues, etc. etc.

Apart from the traditional controls, in Argentina there are specific regulations that also add red tape (and costs) to these types of transactions..... again, I dont know your specific situation and if you already are a legal resident of Argentina, and have a local account established, its of course easier for you to do this.... but still, depending on which bank you have an account with, you will be asked to fill out several forms and you will still be forced to convert your foreign currency to Pesos, regardless of what currency you wish to withdraw the funds in.

As for the special confirmed cheque that you mention... to my knowledge such a cheque is not depositable in a local bank account... I could be wrong, but Im 99% sure. Not saying you cant cash such a cheque down here, but to do that you would have to go to an Exchange Bureau or Brokerage Firm that has an account in Europe and the fees involved would be important (at least 3%), and in some cases depending on what bank the draft/cheque is issued against you may have to await collection before they pay you.

One last thing... you mention in your post that you can wire AR$ (or US$) from your Euro bank account... please note that wiring AR$ from Germany is not feasible. The Peso is not an internationally convertible currency, so your German bank cannot transact in Pesos... what they will do is send a "Gegenwert" or equivalent amount in either Euros or Dollars that would match some amount you may be able to fill out in Pesos. In any case, its an issue of games with the unit of measure... :D

Cheers,
Alex