greg999

I had transferred 1,000 points 2/21/14 from chase ultimate rewards points to take advantage of the 1,000 point promotion, and looked on my amtrak account today and noticed all of these points had expired 3/31/14, with the comment points expired due to no paid amtrak travel in the past 36 months. Fortunately I hadn't transferred more points but it is concerning to have them disappear in less than 2 months.

I have considered transferring ultimate rewards points in the future to book a sleeper train (had a great experience doing so last year) but am now worried about doing so. Is this how expiring points work?

nerd

Yes, that is how the point expiration works. Unfortunately, if you have points that are about to expire, the AGR website does not show what the upcoming expiration date is.

That also brings up the question -- once points have expired, what is the new expiration date? (If you don't travel the month following points expiration/deletion, do any points transferring in again get deleted when the next point-deletion sweep runs?) Again, since the AGR site gives you no information, it is hard to tell...

AGR Insider

"do any points transferring in again get deleted when the next point-deletion sweep runs?"

That is currently how it works. We encourage members to redeem shortly after an inbound transfer if there is no recent paid Amtrak travel. It's worth noting that Amtrak Guest Rewards Chase MasterCard holders are exempt from the point expiration clock.

Anthony

jonnydoe1234

Wow. This is a horrific expiration policy, and the terms and conditions do not make clear that this is what will happen. I earned some promo points in November 2013, and those points were deducted from my account a few weeks back because I have had no paid travel in the past 36 months. Seems like the better interpretation of the expiration policy is that the points should expire in November 2016. The policy states as follows:

"If no paid Amtrak travel is recorded or reported within 36 months, your points will expire."

The logical reading is that, absent paid travel, your points expire 36 months from when they were earned. Nowhere does it mention routine sweeps that eliminate points earned just months ago. Maybe I will get some plaintiffs' class action lawyers to take a look.

bchas

Sorry to disagree. I read the quoted sentence to say: Points expire 36 months after last paid travel. I don't read anything about how points were accumulated or when points were earned.

Do what Anthony says: Get a Chase AGR credit card. No fees and points never expire!!

diburning

Or, if possible, take a short trip! 3 years is already quite generous for point expiration.

jonnydoe1234

I just think it is completely crazy that, if you did not have paid travel in 36 months, you can earn points through non-travel (through the shopping portal, through an ultimate rewards transfer, etc.), and then, Amtrak can do a sweep and have your points become expired immediately. Doesn't this strike anyone else as bizarre?

GoAmtrak

Well, it's unfortunate if you misread the T&C and lose your points, but I think they're rather straightforward and understandable. AGR had to change the rules a few years ago after too many members were using AGR as a point-laundering program, not the Amtrak loyalty program it was intended to be.

Ultimately I wish more Americans had regular access to reliable, affordable train service. But why wouldn't AGR protect itself from members who have no interest in the company's core service offerings? Even the fee-free credit card makes for a rather low barrier to entry for anyone interested in "the game" more than patronizing Amtrak itself. The T&C seem quite fair in that regard.

ken555

This just happened to me. I transferred 20,000 points into the program with the intention of redeeming them this month. Immediately after issuing the transfer I left on an extended trip, and upon my return last week learned that all my points (including a minor amount in the account before the transfer) were removed. I have sent an email to Amtrak via their website and am waiting on a response. I find it absolutely ludicrous that they would remove points that were transferred less than 30 days prior. I cannot believe this is normal policy, and will assume they will do the right thing by reinstating the recently transferred 20,000 points. Anything less will cause me grief, and I'm sure I would find an appropriate venue to express my displeasure (outside of FT, of course).

Surely Amtrak can't be this customer unfriendly, can they?

physioprof

When was the last time you went on paid Amtrak travel?

nerd

AGR Insider --

How come the AGR website still won't show you the date when your points will expire?

I've had 70,000+ airline miles expire, but at least every program, save AGR, lets you see when it is going to happen.

Wouldn't that save a lot of headache and gnashing of teeth?

AlanB

I can't explain how it knows, but I know that if one joins & uses the free points tracking service from Award Wallet they will tell you the date the points expire.

Perhaps its as simple as Award Wallet knowing the rules and simply extrapolating a date 3 years in the future from your last recorded trip. Or perhaps they know where the data is hidden; I'm not sure.

But joining up with Award Wallet is one way to protect your points until such time Amtrak/AGR can visibly supply the data. And it works with many other frequent flyer programs too; keeps all your points totals in one place.

RogerD408

Point trackers will compute expiration dates when not presented publicly. Most sites "scrape" webpages to gain the info they want to track. There have been reports of sites not keeping up with rule changes and members lose their points by trusting the site. Unfortunately, that doesn't carry any weight with the loyalty site.

Personally, anytime a program has such rules, the data needs to be made readily available to the member and not require them to track it. Yes, they will need to update the code when the rules change, but that's all part of the cost of offering the program.

stevester

What time do the point sweep program run?

I just hope it doesnt run in middle of day and ruin the party.

Thanks to this thread, I will do the transfer only when Im ready to book the ticket.

Long Islander

So, Anthony, if you transfer points into AGR from a hotel or credit card program when it's already been more than 3 years since your last paid Amtrak travel, your points expire the instant you transfer them in?

And you don't make this clear in the Terms & Conditions?

And there is no clearly stated rule as to when those points will expire (based on what is said in this thread about points "sweeps")?

A reasonable reading of the T&Cs would suggest that those points will expire if you don't have paid travel during the 3-year period beginning with the date those points were transferred into AGR. This is how all other frequent traveler programs work.

I suggest you change your policy or at least reinstate points for AGR members whose points have been forfeited as a result of this undisclosed rule.