Recent "forced stopover rule" for AGR?
 

Is there a phantom "forced stopover rule" when redeeming two AGR awards for a trip?

There is nothing about such a restriction in the recently published guidelines, but posters on AU say they've been repeatedly told they cannot redeem two awards unless they force an overnight stopover between the awards and take the next day's train. This gains nothing for Amtrak that we can see, but greatly inconveniences the passenger, adding an unnecessary hotel night.

For example, say someone wants to travel from point A to B on one award, and from point B to C on another separate award. If he or she is willing to pay the points for each of the two awards, wouldn't that be allowed?

Thanks.

Btw, I have not personally experienced this, but if the "rule" exists, it would affect a tentative trip I'd like to take. One poster was able to book such a trip without any problem, but others on AU have been refused even when each award was for a published route. Quite a bit of confusion over there about this. Help, please! Again, thanks.

So are you able to book your trip, or not?

And why not just keep the discussion going on the Amtrak Unlimited website?

Because the AGR Insider only post on this board, not over there, and they are the ultimate source for correct information re: AGR bookings.

Connection?
 

Could it be that the itinerary is not a guaranteed connection (to little time between trains) and thus Amtrak unwilling to chance you making the connection? Is that what you mean by published route? Or are you taking about booking a single train going A- B- C as 2 separate trains first A-B then B-C a few hours later


The way to check is to see if it bookable as a complete trip on Amtrak website.
If it is bookable as a complete trip on Amtrak then it is a guaranteed connection.

Of course you could be looking for a longer layover which I think Amtrak Guest Rewards would allow

Another alternative is to try and book the trip on 2 separate calls.

The original poster wanted to use two AGR redemptions consecutively on the same train with no requested stopover what so ever. First redemption A to B, and second redemption B to C. AGR reportedly said OP must do a (forced) overnight and take the next day train. Supervisors backed up the agent's decisions on this. The OP account had been tagged so other agents would not change the original agent's decision.

Nerd: I am not ready to book my trip for next year. Others on AU have already tried to book their trips, unsuccessfully, despite following the published guidelines.
I'm on FT because obviously we on AU do not know. That is implicit in my post. Importantly, as amamba pointed out, AGR Insider (an authority) is here, not on AU.

Dicksboat has it. It's the same train so no connections are involved. Also, no duplicate or impossible bookings are involved, obviously. Technically, the first award ends and the second one begins while the train is standing in the station. The trip is just paid for with two "payments" (awards). For a trip paid with $$, this is equivalent to paying for one reservation for A-B, then adding another reservation for B-C and paying for the second reservation separately. Perhaps making a separate phone call for each award would have worked, unless an unpublished "rule" really is in effect. ??

It's puzzling, because each of the two awards could easily be booked if they were for separate trips on different dates. We don't understand why the two awards were not allowed on one trip (without a forced overnight stopover). They would be back to back but there is no overlap. Amtrak would not be losing anything by allowing them, and the forced overnight to wait for the next day's train doesn't help Amtrak in any way.

Thanks, all. Hopefully Insider can clarify for us.

I've booked awards such as that (coach to zone boundary, sleeper the rest of the way) but not in the past year.

Pending clarification, it seems you can just: 1) Book them separately, or 2) Hang up, call back, and try a different agent.

Thanks, nerd. I'm hoping a separate call for each award would work, but who knows. I'm still in the planning stages and knowing the rules will be of help in my planning.

Edit to add: Other AU posters have said, like you, they've been able to do it in the past. But a few have been told no recently.

Unfortunately, one of the AU posters tried calling back, got the same response from the second agent and a supervisor, and now has a note about it in his record. The three AGR people he got were adamant that it was not allowed--although we can't imagine a reason why it isn't. Another AU poster also was not allowed to do it, but a couple of other posters were allowed. There's nothing about it in the published guidelines. We are hoping to clarify with Insider here.

I would like to hear one can do same-train changes of service at a zone boundary:

- sleeper to coach, or vice versa

- paid to award, or vice versa

Yes, it's going to mean processing a second ticket and relocating aboard the train, but that really doesn't seem so hard. There are lots of trains where a conductor is doing a sweep for new tickets/boardings at ~20 minute intervals, anyway.

One of my trips involved the above, but not at a zone boundary:

In order to get a certain published routing so others could join me for the trip, my two-zone award in sleeper ended hours before my destination. After setting that up, I then went online and booked a paid coach ticket for the rest of the trip without a problem.

Well supposedly AGR agents are now saying that you can't combine paid travel with a reward ticket (switching at the zone boundary) on the same train.

AGR Insider, can you help and clarify this policy?

It has to be handled by phone and where they can also answer all of your questions directly.

(Disregard...this was meant for another thread).

To all -- I thank you for your patience as this topic is researched and we discuss with our reservation sales and operations staff to get you the answers you are seeking.

Thanks, Insider, for listening to our many questions and for the help you've already given. AGR is a good thing! :)

AGR INsider/Clarification re Booking Conbo Awards
 

AGR Insider: Thanks,looking forward to your Answer! I think most of us understand what we want and because of the new Policies @ AGR the Agents and Supervisors think we are trying to "Get Over"! Not the Case, there is No Reason why a Paid Reservation shouldn't be allowed with an AGR Award Trip whether or not it's @ a Zone Boundary or in the Middle of Nowhere! Those of us in Flyover Country and out in the Sticks often have to do this to go on LD Trips that we can afford! Amtrak is out absolutely nothing when we have to Book these Combo Trips!

jimhudson,

Please Fix that Annoying random Capitalization function on Whatever device You're using. It Occurs in Post after Post. ;)

It would seem to me that it would be in Amtrak's best interest to NOT force the layover. After all, once A to B is booked, it becomes more difficult to sell B to C on the same train. Similarly, once B to C is booked after the forced layover, A to B on the same train becomes more difficult to sell.

That of course assumes that the passenger can stay in the same room, were the layover were not forced, i.e., that there isn't another rule that forces the passenger to switch rooms.

Just to clarify, you aren't saying that I can't book an AGR ticket to a zone boundary and then call USA-RAIL to book a paid ticket from the boundary to my destination on the same train?

We are constantly told ARROW is untouchable because it is so old and that the slightest change to Amtrak.com capability is prohibitively expensive. I can't picture a system feature that could enforce a rule like this.

I was always under the impression that AGR couldn't touch paid tickets and vice versa. I may have missed a change allowing AGR to book paid tickets. In that case, what it sounds like you are saying is the they have gone back to the old system, not that you can't book the paid ticket by other means.

Back a few years ago when AGR agents were contracted out that was true. But when AGR agents were brought in house, that all changed. In fact, during really busy times at Amtrak's 800 number you could well find yourself talking to an AGR agent without even realizing it as calls will be routed to AGR agents who aren't busy with AGR reservations. AGR agents can do anything a regular Amtrak agent can do, plus of course book AGR reservations.

Regular Amtrak agents however still by & large cannot touch AGR reservations, except in cases were there are delays or extenuating circumstances.

Great point, jobtraklite. AFAIK, none of us on AU had thought of that, but it's true.

On another note, I must say that I'm very favorably impressed that AGR pays attention and considers questions and concerns expressed on an anonymous forum. I wonder if some other companies do the same? Let's hope we've all made some valid arguments in Amtrak's eyes.

Did op get a reply?
 

The OP STATED;
"crescent2
Recent "forced stopover rule" for AGR?
Is there a phantom "forced stopover rule" when redeeming two AGR awards for a trip?

There is nothing about such a restriction in the recently published guidelines, but posters on AU say they've been repeatedly told they cannot redeem two awards unless they force an overnight stopover between the awards and take the next day's train. This gains nothing for Amtrak that we can see, but greatly inconveniences the passenger, adding an unnecessary hotel night.

For example, say someone wants to travel from point A to B on one award, and from point B to C on another separate award. If he or she is willing to pay the points for each of the two awards, wouldn't that be allowed?

Thanks.

Btw, I have not personally experienced this, but if the "rule" exists, it would affect a tentative trip I'd like to take. One poster was able to book such a trip without any problem, but others on AU have been refused even when each award was for a published route. Quite a bit of confusion over there about this. Help, please! Again, thanks."


DID THE AGR rep ever reply to OP maybe by PM?

I think many people may want to book coach for day trip to zone border, and sleeper from there. Couldn't you first call to book your sleeper portion, and then book the coach ticket on the website? I don't believe the system would be sophisticated enough to be able to 'notice' the separate bookings.

darben: I was not expecting an answer via PM and have not received one. Hopefully, we'll get an answer here in due time.

-via Pm ;)

Update
 

I am still working on this issue and hope to have a substantive conclusion to post this coming week. Your patience is greatly appreciated.

Insider: Thanks, your help is also greatly appreciated!

Thanks for looking into this.

In the meantime, is there some reason you won't 1) Confirm that this is not actually a rule, and 2) Advise us what we should do if we encounter an AGR agent who thinks it is?

Umm, I think you are asking for AGR Insider to provide the final outcome now, not next week. Let's take him at his word (which has been golden) and wait until next week or whenever he is able to work this issue to a final resolution.

Well... Either there is a new forced-stopover rule, or there isn't one.

That's an answer a company representative should be able to easily provide.

AGR Insider is a representative of Amtrak Guest Rewards. AGR is part of Amtrak, but there are other departments at Amtrak that may be involved.

Bottom line is that if AGR Insider says he needs some time to work things out, given how helpful he has been here, I am more than willing to give him that time. This is not a life or death issue.

Thank you, PHLviaUS. We do try our best to maintain a presence here and follow up on requests while balancing numerous other priorities.

There is no forced stopover rule. The redemption guidelines stand as published. The call center leadership has been instructed to allow multiple redemptions to be booked with no forced overnight, as long as each individual redemption follows the guidelines (i.e. published route). If you call to book such an itinerary and are told an overnight stay is required between two redemptions, please ask for a lead agent or a supervisor.

Thanks for looking into this and setting the call center folks straight. :D

Ironic that his forum name has no caps... :p

AGR Insider:

Thank you very much for looking into this. I know that this is an issue that has taken considerably more time than just the average rule clarification post. Having a holiday week in the middle didn't help, either.

But we have the answer we were waiting for and that is terrific. Thanks again!

Thanks very much, Insider! We are fortunate to have your interest and input, and we appreciate your willingness to listen and help.

Appreciate your efforts Insider!

I realize that this thread is a bit old, but I just encountered a similar situation over the weekend. Have the rules changed since last July? I spoke to 3 different agents on Friday night. I got disconnected from the first one while she was checking to determine if what I wanted to do is doable. I phoned back and was disappointed that I could not talk to the same agent. The second agent informed me that a one zone trip was actually a 2 zone trip, and the third one told me an overnight was required. I want to go from Orlando to El Paso (2 zones) and from El Paso to Emeryville (1 zone) in a bedroom. I realize that a 3 zone trip would be 60,000 points and a 2 zone plus a one zone will be 65,000. If this is not allowed, I will stop calling and take another route. Thanks.

2 Zone/1 Zone AGR Award vs. 3 Zone AGR Award
 

Penny: Remember you will also get a 5% Rebate of Points for your AGR MC.

IINM you are wanting to go ORL-WAS on the Meteor or Star/ take the Crescent to NOL/Overnight on your Dime and then take the Sunset Ltd. from NOL-ELP-LAX/ then the Starlight to EMY????

I'm not sure why you would want to change in El Paso Unless you are wanting to Book 2 Seperate Award Trips because AGR/Arrow would Route you ORL-WAS-CHI-EMY on the Meteor/Cap Ltd. and the Zephyr and you want to ride the Crescent and the Sunset! Technically ORL-ELP via WAS and NOL would be a 2 Zone Award and ELP-LAX_EMY (the Zone Border ) Would Be a One Zone Award! But the new Rules seem to say that you must Book the Most Direct Route/ No "Custom Routings"!
If AGR will Allow this, you May have to Change Rooms in ELP (either on #1 or #421/a Different Car) but If Available may be able to Stay in the Same Room all the way to LAX!
Id try to Do this as 2 Seperate AGR Awards, a 2 Zoner ORL-WAS-NOL-ELP /then a 1 Zone Award ELP-LAX-EMY! Good Luck, maybe a PM to Anthony would Clarify this??

I am hoping to travel on 98 to WAS, 29 to CHI, 421 to ELP for a 2 zone redemption, and from ELP to LAX on either 421 or 1, and to EMY on the CS for a one zone redemption.

Your plan follows the rules, as AGR Insider wrote on July 9. Your problem is that the third agent you talked to doesn't understand the rules. Try again, and if the fourth agent doesn't book what you want, talk to the agent's supervisor. If worst comes to worse book the two redemptions separately. What's the worst that can happen then? You might have to move from one roomette to another. El Paso is a long stop, so it's no problem if you have to move between sleepers.

My belief is that most AGR agents don't book many long-distance sleeper redemptions, and don't have the rules governing them at their fingertips the way we do. Why some of them then make up rules is a mystery to me, but in my experience is counterbalanced by those agents who misprice redemptions in my favor. YMMV, of course.

I would just PM AGR Insider. Good luck Penny!