I think I know the exact individual in question that you are talking about. Has an uncanny ability to try and fob people off, and has very little context or understanding of the product or market at all. Stated that their manager was 'unavailable' along with another senior individual at Centurion, which was strange as I called them immedaitely after speaking to him. Was not amused, and neither were they.

There is a new head of Customer Relations at Centurion that is a lot more reasonable, and would appear to be a realist that has her head screwed on properly and isn't away with the mystique and hype of the product.

Thanks,
Richard

Well, it's to be hoped that she will review all the closed accounts and wonder how an organisation can lose such valuable customers and what was done to try and keep them. She could do a lot worse than to send personal letters to those like me who have quit offering some olive branch.

Btw, what's the US Centurion fee??

Do you also get VS Gold? Then that is worth something...

I'm paying $2,500 but the original Centurions are still garndfathered at $1,000. Another thread here said that a rep told someone that the Centurion fee is going up to $5,000. If they do and don't grandfather us, I see a mass exodus! It may still work for people with unlimited funds who like to travel to the top places and get nice upgrades, but it would be the end for me.

I missed the thread that said it was going to 5K.


Ouch!

I do think that Amex is trying to weed out people who don't lease private yachts and planes and limit the card to the truly elite.

I think they immediately regretted allowing those who "only" spent 150K or so, which was evidenced by them quickly raising that threshold. 150K-200K annually is NOT the demographic they are seeking.

Another tactic (imo) was taking away the *wood Plat benefit bc they realized it was a huge incentive for many. They also realized they were losing out on savvy travelers who booked 2 nights at MO properties in NYC and London. They quickly changed that as well.

I think the new benefits are revealing.
Amex Cent wants clients who will use the Fraser Yachts benefit and lease a yacht for 30-50K a week. They want clients who lease private jets and purchase Tour GCX memberships.

I hope the rumor isn't true, but it won't surprise me.

Well that's such a small market as to be statistically insignificant. Don't think you can run a viable business model on that. The Amex Centurion must have pretty small margins and to make any significant money off it you need volume. You aren't going to get volume from the private jet brigade.

I think they do want the $200K annual spend demographic, but they want the part of it that is spending that $200K out of their discretionary income (i.e. expenses that will not be reimbursed).

If you're spending $200K after taxes, mortgage/rent etc. on one card, you're probably in the $1M income bracket which surely is the Centurion market.

Put another way, Amex probably isn't interested in $200K spent on building supplies or last minute domestic coach tickets and two hundred nights a year in 4* hotels.

According to CapGemini - Ultra HNWIs account for about 1% of the HNWI population - so around 90,000+ households worldwide - but one-third of the total HNWI wealth which is around $30 trillion + - so it is a small slice of the population that holds a lot of the wealth and naturally is attractive to AMEX and many others.

That said, the problem for AMEX with the Centurion approach is a big chunk of these Ultra HNWIs use intermediaries to make payments, be it there assistants, business managers, financial managers, agents, accountants, family members, executive staff, etc. Lots of them actually have no idea how their stay was paid for!

What's more, these wealthy folks tend to have very specific needs when traveling - specific suites with connecting rooms, etc. that preclude them from taking advantage of upgrade programs. Or if they are buying expensive jewelry or watches, they might pay in cash knowing they can negotiate better deals, etc.

There is a lot of volume from the private jet brigade, I would just say Centurion is catching more of those folks that rack up big T&E charges for business and small business owners that use AMEX to pay vendors to rack up miles. These folks may be affluent, but are not in the Ultra HNWI target Centurion was conceived to target.

I agree with you Elite. The true target for Cent card is the ultra HNWI.



I think the concept got away from them. From their perspective too many people figured out how to get one, and even raising the annual fee didn't achieve the required result.

When you think about it, the initiation fee is actually pretty clever. And I have a feeling that there will still be selective invites that waive that fee.

Effectively, if one considers the person who uses it to charge all their business expenses, say $ 200,000.00, and they collect a 3% fee from the merchant for the sale, then they make $ 6,000.00.

So, therefore an initiation fee + the yearly fee is about the same income (or more for the first year, plus any actual charges on the card) for AmEx, and they maintain how exclusive the card is...

Close, but it actually 2.5% and falling...

American Express CFO Gary Crittenden briefly discussed the average merchant discount rate - which remained flat year over year at 2.55% - with the additional comment that ... the longer term trend on the discount rate is negative

http://www.paymentsnews.com//2007/01/23/index.html

The chairman i know from a medium size company, but definitely Ultra HNW ($30 million +) got one comped when it came out from the ex-CEO of Amex who he knew. I remember I was in his office when he was looking through all the material with his PA. He owns a share in NetJets, so the 2-1 on air weren't a big interest to him - although he tried it once and it didn't work because he needed to stay in Europe longer and I think both people have to travel on all the flights together. I remember the next time I saw him I brought my Platinum Hotel Directory and it was basically the same hotels and amenities. He didn't need their concierge services, because he has two assistants who wouldn't be his assistants if they didn't already know how to get private shopping at Gucci or a table at Le Cirq. After two years, they wanted to charge him for it, and when he said he didn't want it - the gave it to him for the Platinum fee according to what he tells me. I've also traveled with him, and when I'm checking out his PA is checking out for him using her green card or VISA card or whatever she puts the miles on. A couple weeks ago he told me about a friend of his who used Amex points to buy First Class airline tickets for some clients like this was a revelation, and I explained that this is part of the Membership Rewards program and Plat cards get it too.

There was a thread on the BA site a week ago of celebrity boarding passes be auctioned on EBay - it was funny - about a quarter of them didn't even have a frequent flyer number and about a quarter of them were basic Blue tier. I'm sure some of these folks don't even know what Executive Club is - they just know they are flying First Class on BA - and they probably have no idea how the ticket was purchased - a travel agent, their PA, their manager, a company they are doing work for, etc.

I think if we could see who actually has Centurion, it would be more of a Platinum + list than the Super Rich. But then again, I doubt the Harry Winstons are going to make offers like buy a $250,000 watch and get a matching bracelet for half off. Any negotiation is going to be 1-on-1 with the purchaser, not through some value added program.

Ready To Jump.
 

I'm a small biz owner who has had the Cent card for around 5 years now. I must say that I initially got it for the travel benefits (elite status) and the possibility of a concierge who could convieniently get me things that I normally could not get. Well, I would have to say now I am seriously considering giving up the card and the $2500. fee. I fly CO over 50k a year anyway, so that benefit doesnt really pay...and now with *woods going down to Gold...I am searching to find what really tangible benefit to me this card offers.....A dedicated TA who is really no better than the random one I get with PTS? A dedicated concierge who works hours that may or may not be convienient to me? The 2 for 1 tickets, dining reservations (which is not avaialable most of the time in NYC anyway) and just about anything else are all available on the Platnium for for over $2k less a year. I find it amazing that they can continue to degredate the amenities and maybe the only reason that I am staying now is the promise of something cool coming out soon that makes it worth it and the fear of having to pay $5k to get back in, if I can get back in at all!! Sorry but I maybe a HNWI, but I'm not buing a NetJets share anytime soon or one of those high end vacation homes that they keep touting.

I dont know, but can anyone talk me off of the Centurion ledge soon, cause I'm ready to jump!

check out the centurion fee thread.. its all about "whether cent is worth it" now.. very detailed discussions.

Thanks....It is a great thread, but one that seems to concentrate more on the "what Amex is looking for" and what the value of a Cent member is to AMEX, kind of not the other way around. You bring up some very good points in that thread I must say. And it can be said that inividual benfits affect individual people differently. However, the idea of voluntarliy downgrading myself to Platinum becuase I am trying to find the value to me in justifying paying $2k more a year vs a Plat seemed better suited in this thread....

I just do not see any real tangible benefits for me. But I am scared to opt out and have to pay big $$ to get back in....The status of having a black card is actually more of an embarassment to me than a cool thing. I usually turn the card over when paying (at a bar) and am sick of the comments of "wow this is the heaviest card I've ever seen"


FYI, like citi I made the spend requirement (at the time $150k) and just called up and got the card. It may have been 4 yrs ago, not 5 like a previously mentioned.