crimsona

Both of which are discontinued for new signups as of earlier this year, and administration outsourced to Scotia bank. Chase Canada is nothing more than a balance sheet item any more

rasheed

I see this type of sentiment on the hotel FT forums too indicating some sort of higher value for a SPG person than a MR person. I am going to keep it simple. If SPG was indeed a higher value program (more expensive resorts, higher room rates, higher HHI, whatever, etc.), it would have been able to transform itself sufficiently to stay independent and not get acquired. However, if the trends and growth are in mid-tier properties - then there is perhaps higher value in an average volume mid-tier person than fewer high end nights. I'll give a small related example where AA vs US Airways, but in almost every way, US Airways methods and habits won. Yes, some of the "high-end" VIP management was kept (CK, like SPG Ambassador-level features continue to be distinguished). Any AA flyer who did not understand the US Airways leadership transformation is still in complaint mode today. I feel the same about SPG folks who avoid understanding thoroughly how MR operates and trying to adapt or find some other high-end program to switch.

Frankly, we all used to see AmEx as superior for the high end customer compared to Chase, but CSR has shown that wrong. Yes, I agree it is because AmEx card leadership is now working at Chase. Yes, Chase paid a pretty steep cost to launch CSR (whose long-term outlook is still unclear in terms of profitability).

Anyway, I stick behind my thought that Chase is ready to be part of the combined MR program. I actually believe AmEx's Hilton decision indicates this as well (deciding to let MR/SPG goes it way and lock exclusive with the main competition). Yes, I also don't think MR needs a high-end card (aside from those who like the RC version). So, we already have the high-end choice via the RC one and the normal low-cost MR card. Chase's other hotel co-brands are IHG and Hyatt. To me, those are niche chains especially since Hyatt messed around with its loyalty program. Chase has already lost Fairmont due to that acquisition.

I really like my AmEx with my highest ROI due to AmEx Offers, but that is not going to be enough for AmEx to win the MR business. Oh look, Chase launched Visa Offers with Marriott cardholders too. Admittedly, it has a lot of work to do to compete with the deals on AmEx offers, but Visa Offers is owned by Visa, so Visa can do a lot of creativity to attract offers. So, it is very clear Chase and Visa are working together for the MR cardholder portfolio.

Now, sure it is possible that AmEx will put a value prop together for the MR portfolio, but it will be very costly in benefits if they find a way to go over the top of Chase and will still be limited in its AF potential.

Rasheed

sdsearch

Huh? What hotel card gives 5x the normal earnings on gas, groceries, and restaurant purchases?

What's with all this talk about Ritz? Haven't you heard? Marriott has announced that they're going to be merging three programs (not just two) into one: Marriott, Ritz, and SPG are all going to merge into one program.

So there will not be any separate Ritz program any more once the programs merge, so there will not be any separate Rtiz card.

There may be multiple tiers of cards for the same program (sort of like Hilton is doing come January 18), but they won't be Marriott vs Rtiz cards, because it's all be the same program. They'll be something like Marwood Normal and Marwood FancySchmancy cards. ("Marwood" being a placeholder name for the new program. We don't know yet what the new program will actually be called.)

mikesyr18

Uh, the Hilton Honors card gives 5x on gas, groceries, and restaurants.

The Ritz Carlton card won't be going away. It is a top-tier card with Chase. Renamed? Sure, and AMEX will have to fight hard to get the entire Marriott/Ritz merger on board with them.

Marriott would be absolutely stupid to tick off Ritz Carlton loyalists because many of them are in the 1% income bracket.

Chase and I have a love/hate relationship but it's still a bank I look to when I want certain features and top credit cards. I prefer AMEX's partners, though.

Majuki

You have to weight the value of an Honors Point versus a Starpoint.

mikesyr18

It's still 5x > 1x

pallhedge

Personally, I value 1 Starpoint just about the same as 5 Honors points. Both just a bit under 3c.

Diplomatico

The AMEX HHonors Surpass gives 6x points for those categories.

mia

The normal earning rate on Surpass is 3 points per dollar. 6 points per dollar is only double.

mikesyr18

I value Starpoints at 3 cents a piece, so 5 HH points, so we're in agreement.

Kacee

But AMEX PR Gold gives 2x on these categories, and 2 MR is worth more than 5 Hilton.

mikesyr18

Depends 1 MR = 1.5 HH points when transferred. So 2 MR = 3 HH points.

sdsearch

No, it doesn't!

You're confusing "5x the normal earnings" with 5 points per dollar. Those are two totally different things.

The Hilton Honors card doesn't give 1 point per dollar on anything! It gives a minimum of 3 points per dollar (on anything not in a categeory), and thus with that card 3 points per dollar are "the normal earnigs".. "5x the normal earnings" on the Hilton Honors card would thus require it to give 15 points per dollar on gas, groceries and restaurants, which it clearly does not do!

So it doesn't even give 2x (double) the normal earnings at gas, groceries, and restaurants. It just gives a paltry 1.67x (5/3) the normal earnings on gas, groceries and restaurants.

And that's because Hilton Honors points are generally considered to be worth the least value per point of all the "major" hotel programs. So all credit cards that earn Hilton Honors points (both from Amex and Citi) earn more than 1 point per dollar on everything, to try to make up for the low value of a single Hilton Honors point.

mikesyr18

And yet it's still much better than the Marriott or the IHG card that earns 1x on pretty much everything but a select category. Both programs have equally or very close to equally worthless points as Hilton.

Normal earnings are always 1x.
Hilton gives you triple the earnings on regular purchases and 5 times on those categories.
The value of the actual points is irrelevant, it's 5x.

I can see your argument where 3x * 2 = 6 but I still disagree. It's advertised as 5x, so technically it's 5x back, and triple points on other purchases, otherwise Hilton would go with 1x and 2x and increase the value of each point while reducing the earnings.

Actually it gives 0.6(5) = The equivalent of 3% back on restaurants, groceries, and gas.

sdsearch

Then I suggest you'd love the Choice hotels card from Barclays, because it's advertised as earning 15x on Choice hotel stays.

Except it doesn't. You earn 10 Choice points per dollar from Choice itself on hotel stays, and only 5 from the card itself (Plus it earns 2 points on everything.)

So what cards advertise is often misleading. For another example please get excited over Capital One, which gives "double miles" on everything, not just airline flights. Except of course, it gives double of something worth less than any airline card (especially if you're interested in business/first class longhaul flights). And while it advertises that it earns "miles", it essentially just earns cashback points (except the cashback is limit to travel redemptions only).

So card advertising about earning is often misleading, and IMHO in the HH case too. They're simply using "5x" as advertising shorthand for "5 points per dollar", but "5x" is supposed to mean "5 times" of something else, and that it's really not..

No, normal earning are what you normally earn on non-category purchases on that card. Normal earnings on the HH card are 3 points per dollar. Normal earnings on the WynhdamRewards credti card are 2 points per dollar. Normal earnings on the Capltal One Venture card are 2 "miles" per dollar.

The reason to compare to normal earnings is to be able to do the math on how much it's worth using the card for one category or another. It's obviously much more worth it to whip out a Citi TYP Premier card for gas, even if not using for anything else, because it gives 3x of normal earnings for gas, whereas if I'm not going to use the HH card everywhere, I'm also not going to use it for gas at just 1.67x the normal earnings (that's not a big enough difference to get it out of my wallet). (If, on the other hand, you use the HH card most everywhere, then of course you would also use it for gas.)