LUS: The ugly truth about LUS ("West" 757) First Class service to Hawaii
 

The ugly truth about US (HP) Hawaii service

I just returned from a week in Hawaii via HP’s new PHX-HNL non-stop 757 service in first class. What a positively dreadful experience.

First of all, this flight has apparently been problematic from day one, with significant weight and balance restrictions causing major inconvenience to a lot of people. On our flight, FIFTY passengers were re-accommodated “due to head winds.” When checking in 90 minutes prior to departure, the agent commented that it was a good thing we were in First Class, as we probably wouldn’t be flying. She said that they’ve been bumping “huge numbers” of passengers off that flight every day since it started. Including, she said, elite members. She said the cut-off line is based upon check-in time, so let this be a significant warning: If you are flying a US/HP flight to HNL or OGG (Maui), check-in online, well ahead of flight time if you want to be guaranteed a seat. (Though I will add to that, that online check-in was not available on the return flight, at any point within the normal 24 hour window, as I tried multiple times – I have no idea why. I don’t know about the PHX-HNL flight, as I didn’t try.)

We boarded on time, then spent 90 minutes sitting at the gate while they continued to sort out their weight and balance and reaccommodation issues (including pulling more people off the plane), according to the pilot. He announced that in addition to the 50 passengers who were taken off the flight, “around 50 bags are also being removed from the plane and those will be sent on to Honolulu and delivered to hotel rooms later that night.” (Famous last words.)

It was my hope (naïve, I know) that there would be some improvement to the standard first class service given the length of the flight (6 hours, 45 minutes) and the nature of the destination. I knew better. Food options consisted of the latest standard first class fare: chicken salad or hot sandwich. No mai tai’s, no additional meal options or snacks.

A fair amount has been written about the dreadful seats in HP’s ancient 757s. I concur that they have to be the most uncomfortable first or business class seats I’ve ever flown in. They’re hard, with absolutely no back (or neck) support and are mounted higher than normal, which puts even more stress on your back if you are under 6’. They’re old, the seatbacks are very thick and they’re crammed together, which means that the minute the person in front of you reclines (which, in my case, was wheels-up, for the duration of the flight) , you are staring at the top of their head, can hardly open your tray table and forget about using your laptop. For this reason, I had reserved the bulkhead seats in row 2 months in advance and those seats were still secure the day prior to departure. Suddenly, when checking in at the airport, two of us traveling together had been scattered in the cabin for no apparent reason, but we ended up together in row 3.

The sound and video quality of the one-day-old tape was horrible – the movie was un-watchable.

In HNL, we barely made our 2-hour HA connection to KOA. Our bags didn’t have a chance. Fortunately, they were not among those that were off-loaded in PHX (though the HP baggage office had no clue what I was talking about when I was trying to trace them over the phone) as they arrived in KOA on a later HA flight.

On the return from HNL, airport check-in was a nightmare. No skycap service is available. There is no first class, elite or Star Alliance Gold/Silver check-in counter. There are no signs or any indication whatsoever about the required pre-check-in agriculture scan of your bags. While waiting in line, I observed several frustrated passengers trekking from the check-in line back to the agriculture scan line to start all over again.

Not surprisingly, US/HP does not have their own staff in HNL, they use a local contracted service. In the words of the agent I walked up to and asked, “Is there a first class check-in desk”: “No, that’s your line (snaking around the columns and down the corridor) right there – no matter your class.” :(

We boarded on time. (I would hope – the aircraft sits in HNL for a scheduled 9 hours) We sat at the gate for 30 minutes past departure while “waiting for paperwork.” Then we sat out on the tarmack for another 30 minutes while the pilot seemed to be revving the engines over and over again. (Nice feeling, by the way, just prior to 5+ hours overwater in a 20+-year-old, 2-engine, beat-to-crap HP 757.)

The flight is scheduled to depart HNL at midnight. As such, they’ve modified the service and serve only drinks until about an hour before arrival, when they serve fruit and bread as a “breakfast.” I don’t know what, if anything, they offer in the back, as I fortunately slept through it.

Arrival in PHX was approximately 1 hr 15 minutes late. The gate agent announced the flights that had been missed – virtually all flights east. Nearly everyone around us in First Class was connecting and it seemed all of them had missed their flights.

I have flown First Class on Hawaiian Airlines on this route many times since they started it. I have to say that other than elite-qualifying mileage, US/HP has absolutely no advantage over HA. HA wins, hands-down in every category. US/HP came off as rank amateurs throughout this experience – a truly pathetic display. :td:

The ugly truth about US First Class to Hawaii
 

(Linked thread no longer valid, as two threads merged together.)

Thanks AZ! Your report confirms my theory that US Airways continues having the worst First Class product even on longer routes that the airline should strive to improve the onboard experience. In this forum, someone was asking about flying US F to Hawaii last week and I warned the OP about the rather uncomfortable flights that he(s) would experience. I think bigger losses are around the corner.

OMG, has it come down to this.....

Thanks for the report. Hope somebody in Tempe can improve things quickly.

That is not an endorsement.

Thank you for the report, though.

Write in and complain. Make your voice heard. It is apparent that someone in Tempe means well, but can't get their head out of their ... long enough to figure out what to do, and they have to be bombarded with complaints to get them to wake up and smell the green limes.

You can still redeem US miles for a UA award ticket to Hawaii. That's what I did. But I also only get coach to Hawaii, so my expectations are low.

Why doesn't US/HP just book FEWER passengers on the PHX-HNL flight. That's how we handled it at AA. Often, we had weight restrictions on the DC-10 out of DFW in the Winter (when they were using a -10 instead of a -30, IIRC). We simply lowered the number of seats sold on the flight.

This is the usual amateurish operation that HP runs. However, AS's troubles as of late are making HP/US look simply wonderful!

A lot of this is probably due to using a 757 and trying to make money on the cargo.

They won't bump cargo. So it's always going to be people or bags. I know HI is low yield, but it's screaming for widebodies if they are going to continue to attempt it from PHX.

Thanks for the report, AZ --- it doesn't sound like HP/US service to HNL is exactly the way to get one's vacation off to a relaxing start (or finish).

I certainly hope from a meal perspective that HP's cold salad or hot sandwich selections as a dinner "entree" DO NOT make their way over to US. US's transcon meals are already desperately lacking when compared to UA -- although I continue to remain grateful to this day that they are at least some type of hot meal choice and not those dreaded boxed "meals." Switching over to the HP-styled "meals" in F would be a poor decision. I hope they at least stick with the two hot meals choices for B, L and D on transcons.

Also, given that another post elsewhere in this forum notes that the new US will begin using more 757's on transcons, I certainly hope that doesn't mean that we are going to be stuck with what sounds like horribly uncomfortable seats from the HP livery.

How much DBC were they offering and did they have to IDB anyone?

@:-) Thats why I take Continental!

Thats why I fly Continental to Hawaii! @:-)

Thank you very much for the report. I am just about ready to book tickets for an upcoming trip to Maui. I refuse to deal with that crap and will fly United on a widebody. I'm not going first class, but my time is valuable and I do not want to be re-accommodated. I was a little nervous about those old 757s anyway; it doesn't comfort me that they have to take passengers and bags off the plane because of headwinds.

Phew, that was a close one -- almost booked the tickets yesterday.

This sounds awful. So much for Doug Parker being the peoples' white knight. Is there any chance a US 767 could be cycled over to this route?

There is a clause in the ALPA transitional agreement that in essence allows one trip to Hawaii to be flown by US (East) pilots, and one trip over the Atlantic to be flown by HP (West) pilots until the workgroups and certificates merge.

I expect they did that with the anticipation of either running a widebody to Hawaii or running a 757 to a "thinner" European destination (GLA in the winter?).

The HP 757 has probably the worst F class cabin I have ever seen. I spoke to a telephone agent who told me that the person in front of her rapidly reclined his seat smashing her beverage and spilling it into her lap. The person infront of me rapidly reclined and crunched my laptop. I am not a huge fan of bulkheads but it is the only way to be safe on these terrible birds.

It had me longing for the oldest, dirtiest F Class cabin on US East which is still far superior to the US West 757. never thought I'd say that :(

That's a great trip report for a clearly awful service. Could we just chalk it up to inexperience (on the part of the check-in process in HNL) and hope that things get better? I would hope so. Of course, this is without saying that HP did service HNL in the good old days.

Not very many airlines have the "remember to check you luggage through ag. screening before getting in line" sign posted at their check-in counters. People always (including myself--I forget once in awhile) to do so.

According to some posts on USAviation, the "weight restrictions" are purely paper... the aircraft wasn't federally certified to its actual max gross weight to save money back in the day, because they never figured on using it. Allegedly they can just pay Boeing and the government a fee to "upgrade" the paperwork - if so, why they haven't done it by now is far beyond me.

Hi,

Given the " weight issues" could things get worse in the summer given the " heat" in PHX causing poorer takeoff performance and less pax/cargo able to be carried? on the 757?

A very poor performance by HP

Regards

TBS

Bring Back the 747 for this route!!!
 

;) :D :) :p

Wow, thanks for the Trip Report AZ. Thank God we still have the *A option to HI. There is no way in H*LL I'm flying US/HP on this route unless they move some of the worn POS 767 to this route which would seem to be better than HP's worn POS 757s!

just wondering then how the ata flights have been working this route for so long, and they operate an all coach 197pax seating, meaning, more seats = more pax = more baggage = more weight. i know that the ata a/c dont have the added weight in the galleys with the ovens, but still, they have been flying phx-hnl for how long. somebody help

Thanks, AZ... I almost booked three first class tickets to HNL for April. Mom's coming over from Europe and wanted to spend a few days in the sun. Change of plans.... :eek:
I can not believe how far the Tempe desk jockeys have their heads up their butts!!! You merge with a company twice your size with international and long distance travel experience and then this. Why not allocate a 767 or two to get this service off the ground? The seasonal routes like Dublin, Shannon, Glasgow, Barcelona and Venice are not flown until May. These 767's are flying to SJU, Nassau and back and forth between PHL and CLT. Between the devaluation of the DM program and the current decisions of the "New US Airways" management, I will seriously have to consider staying with US Airways.
I just hope the Tempe team starts to listen to their premium customers before BK3 strikes. BTW, Mom is flying US Airways from Europe into PHL.... :rolleyes:

Oh boy, that does not sound good. I wonder if they realized this before they started the service.

I wonder if the wind conditions and routing that day made a difference (although it is strange that it happened every day).

Also, are there different levels of ETOPS for the 752? It seems strange that tons other 757 flights are over the Atlantic now (LIS-EWR, for example, is 3384 while PHX-HNL is 2917) - although there are probably more in-between landing places over the Atlantic.

UA flies DEN-KOA 3329 mi. on a 757-200 and gets by fine. PHX-HNL is only about 2900 miles - so there's no real reason why a 757 can't do the run with a full load.

In theory, the planes can fly with full pax+bags+cargo the entire way, but if the aircraft itself isn't officially certified to carry the extra weight, the flight becomes weight restricted, as we've all seen from Day 1. FCYTravis touched up a little on it above. If HP wanted to, they could pay extra to get the paperwork updated and the aircraft recertified towards a higher max weight. We see UA with nonstop DEN-KOA and CO's 752 Transatlantic services because those aircraft are most likely certified to the max gross weight as designed by Boeing (~255K). HP's 752s, IIRC, are certified up to 210K.

Wow, what an awful experience you had AZ. :eek:

I am uncomfortable enough flying those awful 752 F seats over to Houston I could only imagine how it must have been for 6.5 hours! You would think HP would kick it up a notch with service offerings on this route, especially since they don't offer comp elite upgrades. Why shouldn't they if the service is the same crap they offer when I fly to ORD for that matter? :rolleyes:

The bad news is that this trip report (from a respected flyertalker) totally exemplifies the amateurish quality of this airline.

The good news is that AZ just saved me major $$$ as I was planning on taking HP to OGG this year. :(

I can not believe how far the Tempe desk jockeys have their heads up their butts!!! You merge with a company twice your size with international and long distance travel experience and then this. Why not allocate a 767 or two to get this service off the ground? The seasonal routes like Dublin, Shannon, Glasgow, Barcelona and Venice are not flown until May. These 767's are flying to SJU, Nassau and back and forth between PHL and CLT. Between the devaluation of the DM program and the current decisions of the "New US Airways" management, I will seriously have to consider staying with US Airways.


They cannot do this becuase while they may be one company they are far from being one airline. All kind of reasons why US cannot fly on an AWA route. You will not see that operational logic until the certificates are merged spring 2007.

A few comments ...
 

Put yourself in the shoes of those who've saved their $$$ and found a week of vaca to get away from the stress of everydaylife and they get to the HP gate and told that 40 folks need to come off the plane. Not just today, but yesterday, the day before, and the 11 days before that. Chances are it'll also be tomorrow, the day after that, etc, etc.

I, for one, would be royally miffed. Even the best of rescheduling will likely add HOURS to my flight times and increase the chances of missed bags exponentially.

I will only say that I am truly disappointed to learn that the launching of this planned service is off to such an unacceptable start. The responsibility for logistical and operating issues lies squarely with PHX. On top of that, to learn that the on board services appear to, in no way, reflect the special destination that Hawaii is is additionally disappointing. UA manages to keep these routes special with Mai Tais, special Hawaiiana meals in F and some in Y and the famous guess the mid-point game. AA (at least until a few years ago) had special in flight outfits for the f/a's to wear for HI service that made things feel festive when the pax walked through the door of the a/c. None of these things adds significant cost to the flights and increases the pax's experience tenfold.

What a shame. What a shame.

This is why IF i still lived in PHX, I would fly CO PHX EWR - EWR HNL on 777. Lets hope U*S moves East Planes (I wish A330) to Hawaii.

If U*S doesn't get their act together on these trans pac flights, they will abandon them just like the 2004 - 2005 Trans Con Flights.

Lets hope not.... But the ball is in THEIR court!

Oh man, just wait 'till these Arizona hillbillies start tampering with the transatlantic flights! Yee haw!

That sounds horrible. Were there many empty seats? I'm curious as to whether they were telling the truth about being weight restricted, or if they're overbooking to unconscionable levels. What a lousy start to a vacation.

ATA has been flying B757s PHX-HNL and PHX-OGG for years without problems (other than the Greyhound cabin).

Now there's a routing for you -- only on FT would someone consider that a good thing. :)

There were about 50 empty seats. ;)

Seriously, there were plenty of empty seats by the time we were in the air -- this was not an overbooking issue.

Doesn't ATA use 753's on most of the Hawaii routes, though? Or are they 752's?

Arizona? Hillbillies ?

CO uses the 757-200 to fly EWR-Berlin which is 3980 miles -vs- PHX-HNL- 2917 miles. CO had some problems but they may have resolved the range issues. For example, CO has winglets that improve performance. Also, the engine may make a difference. The Rolls-Royce engine generally has better performance than the PW engines on the 757. Do the US Airways 757 have better range or are they the same as the AW planes?

This is a good indicator how they will run the new US. All the airlines flying this route offer an upgraded product.