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-   -   Loyal Observations (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/2160998-loyal-observations.html)

MarkOK May 15, 2024 12:00 pm

Re/ MCE having larger people

Originally Posted by WannaTheater (Post 36235375)
Not sure about the theory of the bigger size people, but perhaps. The nice thing about MCE is you can sit near the front of the plane, and be off quickly. And if you would like to enjoy an adult beverage after a long day of work, it is complimentary.

As for bigger people, just a clarification of what I am referring to (it's not really 'belly size')-- Most MCE travellers, and most frequent flyers, are taller/broader shouldered men. I've rarely met a sales guy road-warrior less than 6 ft tall and size XL across the chest and shoulders. The width of three sets of man shoulders supercedes any gain in knee clearance. The mini bottle of complementary alcohol is rarely worth much to most people. (I do enjoy, but I am nearly the only one in MCE drinking most flights).

Re. Upgrade lists:

True. The more loyal you are, the higher your rate of success will be.
That sounds like the marketing team. It's not a bell curve sorts of chance distribution. It's morel like (for a typical route) <200K LPs (2% chance), 250K (20% chance), 500K LPs (close to 100% chance). For nearly all of us, there is a lot of opportunity costs to be paid to get anywhere close to having a decent upgrade rates.

Re: Companions ruining upgrade lists

Not sure about the one seat at a time speculation. But there is also the option of selecting to be separated if only one seat is available.
Oh, I am fully convinced of this. And it happens between T-100 hours and gate control. if you are 1 and 2 on the list and keep a good eye on the seat map and upgrade list (once visible), you will see the number 3 person disappear whenever a F seat is filled. I've seen it over, and over again. A year ago, BOS-DFW I saw something like 6 seats fill between T-12 hours and T-2 hours while being number 1 and 2. Every time, the number 3 person disappeared off the list. They trickle seat by seat. By the time it's at gate control, there is at best 1 seat left. How do you select to be separated prior to gate control on the clearance order? I'd love to know, so that I am not totally screwed over every time I'd like to upgrade with a companion.

Re. Bag benefit with status beyond CC 1 bag

This is good if you have kids.
Even with the 99 dollar a year Citicard, up to 4 companions on the same PNR have a free checked bag as well. I often travel with my kid and wife, and we pack heavy, but never more than three checked bags worth!

The value of the baggage benefit from my status has been zero dollars the entire time I've been an elite,

Re. Value of miles

While miles can devalue, you can also find some great deals. (international partner awards).
I think there is value in miles, don't get me wrong, but there are all sorts of constraints on the value and it's fleeting. I can't blame anyone for not trusting the valuation of miles.

Re. Relative value of hotel programs

Its been a very long time since I chose to earn hotel loyalty points- even as Marriott lifetime titanium. I see way more value in AA points. 62,400 Marriott Rewards points will give you a night in Boston at a hotel with a rate of $548 per night. Or 60K AAdvantage points will get you a business class seat on Japan Airlines from Boston to Toyko at a value of ~6700. Add that to the 10X benefit of the Citi Exec card and AAdvantagehotels, you can rack up LPs and RDMs pretty quickly.

But I do see your points- If you are not traveling a lot, then loyalty programs may not make sense. Since partner awards are becoming more scarce, my spending pattern may be shifted to American Express, or I may even look at Chase (transferable points to other airlines).
Points in my hotel program are worth more than 2 cents per point. But more than that, the free parking benefits, free breakfast (for my whole family), the suites I nearly always get (and can reserve ahead of time usually without problem at most properties), waived resort fees. All of these things are real dollars of savings. It's not about the intangible feel-good benefits of a lounge (contingent 100% on what airport I am flying fto/from and if I don't have a delay flights or 2 hour out-migration line), or the 'hope' of a domestic upgrade on a slightly larger seat for 2 hours. It's bread and butter and extra dollars in my pocket sorts of benefits. Just last weekend, I spent 11.5K points total for my family to spend 2 nights in a downtown suite with free breakfast in a real restaurant and free parking. Cash cost of that would have been about $700, no joke. Enjoyed a music festival, saw some extended family, and celebrated my birthday.

saunders111 May 15, 2024 12:03 pm


Originally Posted by WannaTheater (Post 36235375)


Its been a very long time since I chose to earn hotel loyalty points- even as Marriott lifetime titanium.

For me, the hotel point games came to a screeching halt the day Marriott bought out Starwood. Starwood points were crazily valuable... 5-10 cents per point redemptions were easy. Marriott Bonvoy, not so much.

sdix May 15, 2024 1:33 pm


Originally Posted by saunders111 (Post 36235813)
For me, the hotel point games came to a screeching halt the day Marriott bought out Starwood. Starwood points were crazily valuable... 5-10 cents per point redemptions were easy. Marriott Bonvoy, not so much.

Agree 100% -Lifetime Titanium @ Marriott and Diamond @ Hilton but I'd never know it. Redemption values are just not worth it. I'd now rather stay in a more convenient property than chase the points.

sdix May 15, 2024 1:39 pm


Originally Posted by whisperjetL1011 (Post 36233561)
First time post

Looks like I am on the other side of the loyalty equation. Recently completed what likely will be my last SWU upgraded flight. They were earned in 2022 just prior to retiring. Have had an Advantage account since 1984 and for the last 15 years was an EP or CK. But after March i moved down to Platinum status based on LP I earned flying in 2023/2024 (and what my 3.5m lifetime miles gives me as well). Don’t see any change to that in my future.

It does feel strange but given my change in status and the changes to the program I don’t feel compelled to solely fly AA like I have in the past. Actually in 2023 I used bank points to fly international Business class and flew domestically with other airlines. That being said we still did 14 round-trip on AA to include one TATL international. But even doing that and spending a fair amount (home renovation material) on my Citi Exec AA card I still did not get that close to the Platinum Pro LP threshold.

I am interested to see the impact as loyalty programs have evolved. Miles will continue to devalue. The actual benefits of status (like upgrades) are more and more a thing of the past as the airlines are getting better about monetizing them. I have bought upgrades myself when it seemed to be a good value. For customers like me (boomer in retirement) what are airlines going to do keep us loyal if we no longer meet their financial status thresholds? Are millennials and gen X customers airline card focused or bank point focused? Would think that bank cards will continue to get more popular with Capital One joining and maybe Wells Fargo. Would like to know what AMEX experienced with their Delta cards because their devaluation and changes certainly seemed to upset their Delta co-branded card holders. I think very few people have the means to cc spend their way to EP and those that do probably can spend on fares that give them the status they want without the status.

We put the majority of our cc spend on bank point cards now. When used to maximize the point multiples they can add far more value than using an AA card. Both Delta and United customers can transfer in from those systems. Miles while devaluing can be maximized with bank points especially when used internationally. So I have come to the point where I don’t need to limit my loyalty or spend to one carrier or card. More and more don't think anyone should.

Member since 1985. Lifetime Plat with close to 7 million butt in seat miles.

There was a day 100K got you a 1st class ticket to SYD and back pretty much with no jumping thru hoops to find. 100K barely gets me from SJC to Dallas these days. As long as airlines give ridiculous sign up bonuses for CC's then the devaluation will only continue. Getting 100K miles use to be a task but now my dog can easily get there.

jackonferry May 15, 2024 2:03 pm


Originally Posted by HaleiwaFlyer (Post 36234211)
...but the tradeoff was a non competitive million miler program.

This was it for me. I didn't start to fly with AA until the USAir merger (2014?). Despite approximately 10 years as EP I am only at about 800K lifetime miles. In contrast, I at lifetime gold status with UA even though I have rarely flown with them in the past decade. I retired recently and will take advantage of this year of EP status and burn through some points, but I already feel more relaxed about not having to chase status with AA. If the million miler program were more competitive I might still be loyal to AA.

DataPlumber May 15, 2024 2:37 pm


Originally Posted by MarkOK (Post 36235810)
Re/ MCE having larger people


-- Most MCE travellers, and most frequent flyers, are taller/broader shouldered men. I've rarely met a sales guy road-warrior less than 6 ft tall and size XL across the chest and shoulders. The width of three sets of man shoulders supercedes any gain in knee clearance.
.

I know plenty of “sales guy road warrior” types that aren’t guys. I also know many sales “guys” that are 6ft tall. They’d all be surprised to learn they aren’t frequent fliers. And as one of the over 6ft tall crowd, don’t underestimate how important leg room is.

OskiBear May 15, 2024 3:29 pm

I think the game has definitely evolved and we have to evolve with it. In the last few years, I've primarily become a free agent and purchase premium travel where the price and schedule works best. It's actually been quite freeing to not be tied to AA or OW. That said, I still enjoy AA for domestic travel and OW for elite/lounge benefits. Plus, I tend to like OW hubs, so it's not an imposition to fly OW when all things are equal (I'd rather connect/layover in LHR/MAD vs FRA/MUC). The South America network works for me, although I do miss the LATAM option and prefer connecting at DFW vs JFK/MIA. JL for Asia flights is also good for me and I don't mind connecting in Tokyo. QR/DOH for Africa flights works great and I love Qsuites!

Most of my spend on credit cards is now with cards that have transferable currency (Amex, Chase, Cap1). AA status is relatively simple to maintain with a bit of AA/OW flying and accruals via the shopping portal. PlatPro is all I need for OW Emerald and MCE when flying domestically for work.

It has been interesting to experience more airlines than I normally would - DL, AF, KL, etc.

I know we enjoy bemoaning the changes on FT...but I don't generally mind adapting to the inevitable changes.

LaserSailor May 16, 2024 10:51 am


Originally Posted by DataPlumber (Post 36236199)
I know plenty of “sales guy road warrior” types that aren’t guys. I also know many sales “guys” that are 6ft tall. They’d all be surprised to learn they aren’t frequent fliers. And as one of the over 6ft tall crowd, don’t underestimate how important leg room is.

Thanks for rescuing us from the 1960s.

EXP100 May 16, 2024 11:21 am

Road warriors are no longer the center of attention for the US3. I almost always either buy F or pay for an upgrade and without doubt during the week I see the road warrior type (dressed up more than others, that consultant weary look) schleping back to Y as I contemplate whether the FA is going to do PDBs. Not too long ago there'd be a complimentary upgrade for them (as an EXP or PP). Today it's back of the bus unless they shell out personal money to cash upgrade. Run of the mill consultants aren't getting paid premium on domestic flights for the exception of a few transcons.

OskiBear May 16, 2024 12:12 pm


Originally Posted by EXP100 (Post 36238278)
Road warriors are no longer the center of attention for the US3. I almost always either buy F or pay for an upgrade and without doubt during the week I see the road warrior type (dressed up more than others, that consultant weary look) schleping back to Y as I contemplate whether the FA is going to do PDBs. Not too long ago there'd be a complimentary upgrade for them (as an EXP or PP). Today it's back of the bus unless they shell out personal money to cash upgrade. Run of the mill consultants aren't getting paid premium on domestic flights for the exception of a few transcons.

And because everyone is already buying premium cabin, upgrades aren't what they used to be, which is part of why I switched my strategy. I usually pay out of pocket to buy-up after the company has purchased my ticket, versus hoping for an upgrade. If it's egregiously priced, at least the status gets me MCE. But, I'm not chasing EXP anymore - definitely not worth chancing it with SWUs on long-haul and the stress/anxiety of worrying if the upgrade will clear.

tismfu May 16, 2024 6:07 pm

This is the first year in a long time that I’m not prioritizing spend on AA-branded credit cards. I’m flying whatever airline has the combination of the best product and itinerary (including JSX). EXP doesn’t provide much value to me, personally. SWUs are worthless, to me (I don’t have flexibility in days / flights).

One thing I may miss, if I don’t requalify, is better seat selection on OneWorld carriers. Flying to Sydney later this year on Qantas and my non-status folks had only a limited selection of business seats. My Emerald status opened up more options.

WannaTheater May 16, 2024 6:51 pm

The counter point:
Rolling delays at DFW prompted wife to go to airport 4 hours early today. Got on standby for earlier flight with absolutely zero inventory per EF. Jumped to #1 on a very long list, got an exit row window, and is now home. Her original flight is still in the air- 2 hours late. Would not have happened without loyalty.

And she is a road warrior - 5’4”, on the light side for that heigth. And no broad shoulders 😃

carlosdca May 16, 2024 8:14 pm


Originally Posted by WannaTheater (Post 36239212)
The counter point:
Rolling delays at DFW prompted wife to go to airport 4 hours early today. Got on standby for earlier flight with absolutely zero inventory per EF. Jumped to #1 on a very long list, got an exit row window, and is now home. Her original flight is still in the air- 2 hours late. Would not have happened without loyalty.

And she is a road warrior - 5’4”, on the light side for that heigth. And no broad shoulders 😃

And the counter point is that there was an EXP that just showed up as scheduled and is arriving home two hours late despite his status.
That she is not on the flight that is late is pure luck.

WannaTheater May 16, 2024 9:46 pm


Originally Posted by carlosdca (Post 36239335)
That she is not on the flight that is late is pure luck.

Disagree. EXP cannot change the weather for the person on the later flight. There was no “luck” involved with getting on the earlier flight. It was loyalty (LPs) which got her to #1.

carlosdca May 16, 2024 10:37 pm


Originally Posted by WannaTheater (Post 36239456)
Disagree. EXP cannot change the weather for the person on the later flight. There was no “luck” involved with getting on the earlier flight. It was loyalty (LPs) which got her to #1.

She just got on an earlier flight. If the earlier flight ended up being late or had to do an emergency landing in the middle of nowhere, then you would say that that bad luck is because of her status too?


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