Centurion

I am the OP and I obviously know more than I am posting. Which means I know how non rev works and people can cancel flights and seat maps are not an indicator of loads and if weather should be a factor with equipment or crew on the city pair. So please do not insult me as a noob.

757FO

Non Revs CAN NOT make a booking. The only thing they can do is list themselves for a flight. It has ZERO affect on seat availability.

JonNYC

You only think you do.

donotblink

IIRC, Directors (and above) can make positive space bookings (both AA employees and equivalents at partner airlines). Abuse of positive space bookings would be A) pointless for those who have access to them, B) are available to a very limited number of employees C) Could cause issues with continued employment D) Would cause AA to be less likely to meet revenue targets and would cause those senior staff members to have a decreased bonus

757FO

They can only be positive spaced for official airline business. Some do get a very small number of positive space coupons for non airline related business travel.. And donotblink is correct.

C17PSGR

If you know how non-rev works, it would be clear that only more senior folks can book seats. If they were caught abusing it .... it would be a problem.

On any given flight, things just change. For example, I was thinking of flying from LAX to Asia recently.on a last minute trip if I could use a SWU and juggle my schedule. The flight was very open in all classes. EF showed J7 D7 I7 W7, and MCE was pretty empty. I looked deeper in J and as of the day before there were 14 available seats in business (I mean available, not unassigned seats) the day before the flight. That evening, I went back to check it again before booking it and ... it had gone to J1 W0, and business was overbooked by two seats. Things move and shuffle ... its Adam Smith economics in the airline world.

Centurion

I wrote phantom booking..Ugh..And the CA city is not a hub.

enpremiere

xooz

It is true that anyone can make and pay for a booking, even people who may intend to fly nonrev. It is also true that many airlines (not sure about AA) have rules prohibiting employees from flying nonrev from cities that they hold a confirmed departure from.

So OP seems to know that AA nonrevs pay for refundable tickets and then skirt or violate company policy to cancel and expose seats for standbys, which may (or may not) enable nonrevs to get on.

Good to know.....

ETA: Perhaps OP knows that AA people can truly manipulate inventory and hold seats without tickets that require payment. That also would be interesting to confirm.

757FO

Folks,

If a Non-rev was to make a phantom booking, under he/she's name, and then canceled it, with the intent of trying to create a seat on a flight, they would be fired immediately. There are systems in place to prevent this on both AA and other domestic airlines. If there is a way around this, i have never heard of it, and given how much my fellow pilots love to gossip, I would have.

Truly with respect to the OP, who is a frequent and valuable contributor, this simply isn't happening. If it is, it's one heck of a small group of people, because I've never heard of it, nor has my fiance who is also a pilot with AA. Just my perspective, as an airline employee who, when combined with my fiance, have over 30 years experience with non-rev travel.

C17PSGR

Well .... we now know that Uber/Lyft drivers at LAX sometimes turn their app off at the same time to create a surge ....

So, I suppose it is possible that a bunch of AA non-revs could purchase refundable tickets and then cancel, leaving space. But ... if they did, there are reports on here in various situations where AA flags repeat offenders and takes actions.

Among other things, it would be far easier for an AA non-rev to log in to Travel Planner (available to AA employees) and see availability. In California, there are so many options for non-revs to get to PHX, the likelihood of someone putting their job on the line for a non-rev seat to PHX seems pretty remote.

Herb687

Isn't that their sole function?

With all due respect, your original post was bizarre for a 4,500+ post FTer. You provided a laundry list of many different forms of gamesmanship with no explanation for the assertions. It was a strange post.

They can make speculative revenue bookings just like anyone else. They can also get fired when they get caught doing so.

You are wrong. Unless something has changed recently, Managing Directors and above get non-revenue positive space even for personal travel (pass categories A2P, A4P, A6P, if memory serves)

Yes, all US airlines of which I am aware make it very clear that once you hold confirmed space in a given market on a given date, you are not allowed to try and fly NRSA on that date in that market. Abuse of this is pretty easy to spot and a good way to get yourself fired.

757FO

@Herb687 - Hence my comment, they do get a few positive space coupons, but it's not many.

Herb687

Are you positive that MDs and up don't get unlimited NRPS for personal travel? They used to.

757FO

I'm only going by what my fiance is telling me for AA. At my airline, it's different.