All I'm going to say is: American Airlines flight 587. AA pilots are good but not flawless.


That all being said, if you aren't avoiding an AA MAX 8 because of the recent issues, you should all be avoiding it because of the inhuman conditions AA has configured them. The UN should be condemning them for human rights violations.

In the not so distant future that’ll be standard narrowbody other than the A321T. B38M / MAX, A321neo and Oasis 738 and 321 will make us all into sardines.

New member here. I read through most of the postings. It is nice to see some very rational and experienced postings.

As most of you know, many more airlines/countries grounded the 737 Max8 pending the investigation.
The FAA pushed Boeing to issue a software update that was still in development.
Multiple pilots have reported "issues" with the aircraft.

The similarity between the two crashes is what is striking. The issues with erratic rates of climb (either real or reported by the system) is disturbing.

Do not forget, most pilots flying 737 Max8s were flying 737-800s or something else previously. Under stress, your instincts take over. If you have done one set of processes for a long time and now are sitting in a familiar cockpit, but required to do a different set of processes.....UNDER STRESS...many people will resort to the previous set of processes.

I think they already have the preliminary information from the EI boxes in hand.

No they don't. The CVR and FDR boxes are sitting on a shelf in Addis Ababa as the ET aviation authorities conduct a beauty contest to determine which competent investigative authority (UK's CAA or NTSB) should do the readouts.

I get your point, but it's both laughable and offensive to call these "human rights violations" for people lucky enough to fly, when there are millions if not billions living in poverty and subject to actual human rights violations.

The lack of a few inches of legroom is not exactly cause for calling in the UN....

Maybe tone it down a bit...

Besides, the UN is toothless. This is something that should belong under the purview of the FAA.

From our corporate travel department:

Has anyone seen this in practice with AA?

WSJ: Pilot of Crashed Jet Reported Flight-Control Problems
The pilot of the Ethiopian Airlines jet that crashed reported that he was having flight-control problems and wanted to return to the airport, the chief executive of the airline said.

NYT: Boeing Chief Personally Appealed to Trump as Countries Grounded Jets
As more countries pulled the 737 Max 8 jet from use after a fatal crash, Boeing’s chief executive called President Trump to express his confidence in their safety.
The company, a major lobbying force, has close ties with the U.S. government, and the Federal Aviation Administration in particular.

not such a regular on AA, but have a flight booked with the family from MIA to LGA next month. Currently scheduled on an A321.
a quick look at AA.com appears this routes about 50% 78M's.

My wife is a VERY nervous flyer at the best of times, and will 100% refuse to travel on a Max currently.

Do AA often change aircraft at short notice? or is it likely a swap to a 78M could accur.
Im trying to decide whether to buy new tickets now on another airline, or risk having to do it on the day!

Thanks for your thoughts

The A321 is a big larger than the 73M so it would be unlikely for them to swap one for the other unless they change the schedule between now and then.

Under the current circumstances and until the current panic is over, they'd be very reluctant to sub in a 78M on almost any flight, last-minute, as there is so much awareness/hysteria at present so they certainly know people would be watching and then refusing to fly, etc

I am a similar situation with a flight to Barbados coming up in May. I really feel like I am between a rock and a hard place as I have over $1300 tied up with AA for this trip. AA maintains it is safe, but the rest of the world isn't so sure. As mentioned above, I have some time, but not THAT much, as prices for alternatives will almost surely go up close to the departure date. It doesn't help that the alternatives to BGI are pretty limited, especially if B6 doesn't fly to your airport (like me).

Southwest and UA are waiving fees to change, not pAArker.

Thanks Both,
I imagine any new bookings between now and the plane being globally recognised as safe will be favouring different models of aircraft, so likely our service will be busy enough to stop them downsizing to a 78M.

Which is really ridiculous and customer unfriendly. It really leaves a bad taste in your mouth about AA.

In the same boat as you. Flying out of BGI on April 20th on the 738Max. The only other option at this point is to leave on the early morning flight. I'm in wait and see mode.

The early morning AA flight is also a 738max (unless you mean the B6 flight).

The FA union wants Dennis Boeing and Doug American to ground the plane:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/new...cid=spartanntp


(Tim Apple and Marillyn Lockheed quietly nod in agreement :D)

I just posted this on the BA forum. Interesting to see corporates taking such a stand. Even if AA are not issuing a travel waiver, it will likely cost them some movement over to other airlines.

I wonder if AA will change their mind on this (the travel waiver) if some of their large corporate customers start pressuring them. Follow the money.

Canada has just grounded the planes. AA, UA and Southwest will likely have to ground them by the weekend. Not sure what the US airlines and Boeing gain by resisting the tide here (even if the the model is perfectly safe)

Not surprising, given that our reason for continuing to fly them has nothing to do with safety.

Forget about USA Today.

You should be watching the live news conference with the Canadian Minister of Transport, Marc Garneau.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5050852/m...-8-ban-canada/


This is related to satellite info that was received last night

I don't see any other option. ^

Well there are big disruption costs for the operators, who will probably try to recoup from Boeing. So it's less about what they have to gain by resisting, and more about what they lose by going with the flow. Not sure exactly how that works in terms of if it's a voluntary grounding vs. a regulatory grounding, but I'm sure it's nicely laid out in the purchase contracts! :)

This is quite interesting to watch. Just viewed the AA APA spokesman (who flies the MAX 8) on Squawk Box (CNBC), and they sure are holding a hard line on this. It's getting cringeworthy to watch AA keep defending the AA MAX 8 while literally the rest of the world backs away until the dust settles.

The AA APA spokesman says AA's MAX 8s have additional indicators on the planes, which others do not have. He says they're the only ones equipped with TWO AOA displays - one for each pilot. This, I guess, is why AA feels they can keep flying the MAX 8. The spokesman said he felt UA and SW were getting these added to their MAX planes.

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/03/1...ilot-says.html

Given all of the interest from the general public on this, don't you think there is some reputation risk? Clearly things are forgotten so quickly in today's news cycle, but the average traveler may think "Wow, American and Boeing kept flying those planes when everyone else stopped because they didn't want to lose money, prioritizing profits over safety"

It is highly unusual, but maybe AA should state this clearly in some public communication as one rationale for keeping the planes in the air. Travelers are watching.

Perhaps AA is buying time to plan equipment contingencies - 3 or 4 days of planning. We gonna see some MD-80s coming from Roswell any time soon?

And then there was one.

I don't know if any 7M8s fly the routes in question for AA, but this would affect flights such as BOS-ORD, JFK-SEA, and other such routes that sometimes/often cross southern Ontario.

Also, while several months away, it would affect the DFW-ANC switch to the 7M8 that I believe AA has wanted to do, if they haven't already (I freely admit I have not kept up with this).

I had a look earlier at the AA routes effected and it seemed that Most if not all MAX are based at MIA

Definitely appears to be the case that they are heavily at MIA.

Come on AA get with the rest of the world and ground those birds.

Bring on them mad dogs!

Its almost all MIA flying except for a few transcons (DCA-LAX recently transitioned to a MAX for one flight).

I’d not be surprised if AA grounds the 7M8 once they’ve been able to fill the gaps (it’s Spring break, for one thing), even though the APA has made statements supporting continued flying of the 7M8. They should have the 14 grounded Oasis 738s back in the air soon, if not now, for one thing, as that was about cable routing and fasteners.

The Oasis ATS refit cable issues require removal, IRAN (inspect, repair as necessary), possible recalling, and proper reinstallation of the Space bins.

The Public Relations pressure alone has to be fierce. And the pressure on the FAA is growing as well, including political pressure. Even the President, contacted by Boeing asking the B38M be allowed to continue flying, has to be feeling pressured.

NOTE: I’m merely speculating here; I don’t have any inside knowledge about a grounding.

US pilots who fly the Boeing 737 Max have registered complaints about the way the jet has performed in flight, according to a federal database accessed by CNN.

In one of the complaints, a captain reported an autopilot anomaly which led to a brief nose-down situation -- where the front of the aircraft pointed down, according to the federal database. In another complaint, a first officer reported that the aircraft pitched nose down after the autopilot was engaged during departure. The autopilot was then disconnected and flight continued to its destination, according to the database.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/13/us/pi...max/index.html

So there goes a lot of CHI-to-East Coast options for the holdouts.