Seat swap thread?
Aug 30, 2018, 3:11 pm
#91
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It is rude to try and take advantage of someone in a trade. So in that case, asking is rude, even if nice.
It is not rude to ask about making what a reasonable person would consider a fair trade, even if you have your reasons for not doing it. I'd say over the 45 years of significant flying, at least 1/3 of the requests I received were fair trade requests. Eighty percent of the ones I initiated were fair, with another 15% resulted in the recipient going from business to first (i.e., more than fair). The other 5% is my wife asking for a F window to F aisle swap (I won't but she will) so we can sit together. And she takes a rare declination without displays of disappointment.
I have no problem declining an unfair request. I don't think the whole plane will think ill of me if I decline, and that still wouldn't influence me. (I'm more likely to worry they will think I'm a chump for making the stupid trade). But making blanket statements that all xyz is rude because some of it is doesn't help anything.
It is not rude to ask about making what a reasonable person would consider a fair trade, even if you have your reasons for not doing it. I'd say over the 45 years of significant flying, at least 1/3 of the requests I received were fair trade requests. Eighty percent of the ones I initiated were fair, with another 15% resulted in the recipient going from business to first (i.e., more than fair). The other 5% is my wife asking for a F window to F aisle swap (I won't but she will) so we can sit together. And she takes a rare declination without displays of disappointment.
I have no problem declining an unfair request. I don't think the whole plane will think ill of me if I decline, and that still wouldn't influence me. (I'm more likely to worry they will think I'm a chump for making the stupid trade). But making blanket statements that all xyz is rude because some of it is doesn't help anything.
Aug 30, 2018, 6:00 pm
#92
Join Date: Jan 2003
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[snip]I'd say over the 45 years of significant flying, at least 1/3 of the requests I received were fair trade requests. Eighty percent of the ones I initiated were fair, with another 15% resulted in the recipient going from business to first (i.e., more than fair). The other 5% is my wife asking for a F window to F aisle swap (I won't but she will) so we can sit together. And she takes a rare declination without displays of disappointment.[snip]
Aug 30, 2018, 6:09 pm
#93
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I'm curious, as that seems to indicate a history of many same-cabin seat swap requests if you can break it down by percentage: are these intra-F swaps because a) you or the requestor booked when the cabin was already too full to allow for adjacent seats or b) the result of upgrades into the J/F cabin and therefore random seat assignments and / or no adjacent seat availability at that close-in timeframe?
I'm not sure why that matters. Upgraders shouldn't ask?
Last edited by beachfan; Aug 30, 2018 at 6:20 pm
Aug 30, 2018, 8:11 pm
#94
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Both, as well as my wife on an award in F, me upgraded to J, her swapping F for a J next to me. Many is in the eye of the beholder, I'd guess around about 15 times over 40 plus years. So probably the trade ratio is more like 87% like or better (non-bulkhead aisle for the same, or F on a 3 class for J), 13% F window for F aisle (i.e. twice that I can recall).
I'm not sure why that matters. Upgraders shouldn't ask?
I'm not sure why that matters. Upgraders shouldn't ask?
I realize that upgrading can lead to families / couples being seated apart. For me, the uncertainty that comes with last-minute cabin/seat changes, especially when I would prepare in a different fashion for a long-haul in Y vs. J/F, would be too stressful.
Last week on LAXSYD in the hour before boarding the first two pax (who also happened to share at least the first three letters of their surnames) on the upgrade list cleared. 1H and 3D were the only available seats remaining prior to them being upgraded (1D is blocked for crew).
I told my spouse: “I assume we are going to witness a seat swap request.” Sure enough, 1H asked 3H to swap so 1H could sit with her husband, who was upgraded to 3D. 3H didn’t jump at the opportunity, as she probably wasn’t thrilled by moving that much closer to the galley and dealing with the associated light / glare / noise on an overnight flight, not to mention the fact that the area of the bulkhead in front of 1DH is often used as a mid-flight buffet. But after a brief moment of what I can only assume was mental calculus about not appearing to be “inconsiderate”, she agreed. I felt badly for her as she probably had selected her seat in advance.
Aug 30, 2018, 11:01 pm
#95
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It isn't like-for-like, and that's the golden rule for seat swaps, so yeah it does count as panhandling based on Proudelitists's analogy. I would never take someone's window for my aisle, and my wife would never take an aisle for a window. And even when it is like-for-like I remind you what I said a few pages ago - even that is up to the "eye of the beholder". For example, tismfu's example about 1H for 3H. I feel bad for that lady too.
Aug 30, 2018, 11:35 pm
#96
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No, I was simply curious. I must be an outlier, but I can only recall one time when I have been asked to switch seats.
I realize that upgrading can lead to families / couples being seated apart. For me, the uncertainty that comes with last-minute cabin/seat changes, especially when I would prepare in a different fashion for a long-haul in Y vs. J/F, would be too stressful.
Last week on LAXSYD in the hour before boarding the first two pax (who also happened to share at least the first three letters of their surnames) on the upgrade list cleared. 1H and 3D were the only available seats remaining prior to them being upgraded (1D is blocked for crew).
I told my spouse: “I assume we are going to witness a seat swap request.” Sure enough, 1H asked 3H to swap so 1H could sit with her husband, who was upgraded to 3D. 3H didn’t jump at the opportunity, as she probably wasn’t thrilled by moving that much closer to the galley and dealing with the associated light / glare / noise on an overnight flight, not to mention the fact that the area of the bulkhead in front of 1DH is often used as a mid-flight buffet. But after a brief moment of what I can only assume was mental calculus about not appearing to be “inconsiderate”, she agreed. I felt badly for her as she probably had selected her seat in advance.
I realize that upgrading can lead to families / couples being seated apart. For me, the uncertainty that comes with last-minute cabin/seat changes, especially when I would prepare in a different fashion for a long-haul in Y vs. J/F, would be too stressful.
Last week on LAXSYD in the hour before boarding the first two pax (who also happened to share at least the first three letters of their surnames) on the upgrade list cleared. 1H and 3D were the only available seats remaining prior to them being upgraded (1D is blocked for crew).
I told my spouse: “I assume we are going to witness a seat swap request.” Sure enough, 1H asked 3H to swap so 1H could sit with her husband, who was upgraded to 3D. 3H didn’t jump at the opportunity, as she probably wasn’t thrilled by moving that much closer to the galley and dealing with the associated light / glare / noise on an overnight flight, not to mention the fact that the area of the bulkhead in front of 1DH is often used as a mid-flight buffet. But after a brief moment of what I can only assume was mental calculus about not appearing to be “inconsiderate”, she agreed. I felt badly for her as she probably had selected her seat in advance.
I sympathize on TATL rolling the dice - it's why SWUs are worth so much less to me know.
While I agree re: the situation you describe, and perhaps they thought it was equal, perhaps not. But that did happen to me once and I suggested that they take row one .
Aug 31, 2018, 8:35 am
#97
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,536
It isn't a crime, but you must consider that for some, just by being asked, makes them uncomfortable and may make them feel compelled to answer in the way they perceive the person asking wants (as someone mentioned earlier). I am not weighing in on whether asking for a seat swamp is right or wrong, because I think every situation is different. But I do wholeheartedly agree with Proudelitist that the "ask" can be stressing on some. I have often remained in my window seat on long flights despite needing to go to the bathroom, because, for me, personally, asking the person next to me to get up is an imposition that I do not want to cause. I would rather get up to go if the passenger in the aisle does rather than disturb his/her flight. Some people think that's lunacy... some people don't. The point being, the question being raised may seem harmless, and you may think some folks need to grow up, but consider that some people can be made to feel uncomfortable despite only the best of intentions. And of course these sorts of interactions are part of life, and everyone needs to be equipped with the skills necessary to "handle" them.
Although one time I was on Emirates from JFK to Dubai and the guy in the window seat didn't get up once in the 12.5 hour flight. Good lord. Must've had a steel bladder.
LOL
Aug 31, 2018, 8:36 am
#98
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I like that comparison, I never thought about it like that before!
It isn't like-for-like, and that's the golden rule for seat swaps, so yeah it does count as panhandling based on Proudelitists's analogy. I would never take someone's window for my aisle, and my wife would never take an aisle for a window. And even when it is like-for-like I remind you what I said a few pages ago - even that is up to the "eye of the beholder". For example, tismfu's example about 1H for 3H. I feel bad for that lady too.
It isn't like-for-like, and that's the golden rule for seat swaps, so yeah it does count as panhandling based on Proudelitists's analogy. I would never take someone's window for my aisle, and my wife would never take an aisle for a window. And even when it is like-for-like I remind you what I said a few pages ago - even that is up to the "eye of the beholder". For example, tismfu's example about 1H for 3H. I feel bad for that lady too.
Aug 31, 2018, 9:05 am
#99
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Beyond the bladder issue, I’d be worried about a DVT after 12.5 hours of being sedentary!
Aug 31, 2018, 9:17 am
#100
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Reminds me of when I flew LAX-AUH in Y (shudder) and the kind lady in the window (we had an aisle-window in the aft Y cabin) didn't get up a single time after the dinner service! Solid 13 hours of sleep haha - I was jealous!
Sep 4, 2018, 1:54 am
#101
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Sep 4, 2018, 5:01 am
#102
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I thought this was an urban legend until I witnessed it earlier this year on Norwegian OSL-LAX. We were flying premium (5A, 5C) and an older American couple was separated with 2 aisle seats (4C and 5D). During boarding they asked the British man in the center seat 5E to swap with the aisle 4C. Config is 2-3-2, so clearly an upgrade swap. He declined, saying he preferred the middle seat, then closed his eyes, clearly not interested in discussing further. He seemed very put out just being asked (the ask was very polite and not at all expecting the swap). After takeoff, he apologized to the couple for being rude, and they swapped seats. People are weird.
I should add that I don't believe anyone here who says they ask and are fine with someone declining. Perhaps in theory they are fine when someone declines, but in the reality of 30+ years of flying, I have yet to see a requestor be fine with being declined. It is purely anecdotal of course, but I have yet to see someone say "Oh, I understand, I wouldn't swap either" and leave it at that. At worst, the requestor gets demanding, argumentative and profane..at best, they get whiny and passive aggressive.
Sep 4, 2018, 10:03 am
#103
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I disagree. Whenever someone on FT asks something along the lines of, "Will the airline/hotel/car rental company/tour operator/etc. allow me to xxx?" My answer, and that of many others, is always the same. You have nothing to lose by asking. As long as the ask is done politely and with no recriminations if declined, I see no problem with asking.
No recriminations if declined...that simply doesn't happen. There are overt and covert recriminations, and while people say they are fine with being declined here on the internet, in reality they never are.
Sep 4, 2018, 10:17 am
#104
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Your experience is valid, saying the whole world is just like your experiences is not. I have different experience than you, both being declined and declining, without recriminations.
Sep 4, 2018, 10:48 am
#105
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No, I was simply curious. I must be an outlier, but I can only recall one time when I have been asked to switch seats.
I realize that upgrading can lead to families / couples being seated apart. For me, the uncertainty that comes with last-minute cabin/seat changes, especially when I would prepare in a different fashion for a long-haul in Y vs. J/F, would be too stressful.
Last week on LAXSYD in the hour before boarding the first two pax (who also happened to share at least the first three letters of their surnames) on the upgrade list cleared. 1H and 3D were the only available seats remaining prior to them being upgraded (1D is blocked for crew).
I told my spouse: “I assume we are going to witness a seat swap request.” Sure enough, 1H asked 3H to swap so 1H could sit with her husband, who was upgraded to 3D. 3H didn’t jump at the opportunity, as she probably wasn’t thrilled by moving that much closer to the galley and dealing with the associated light / glare / noise on an overnight flight, not to mention the fact that the area of the bulkhead in front of 1DH is often used as a mid-flight buffet. But after a brief moment of what I can only assume was mental calculus about not appearing to be “inconsiderate”, she agreed. I felt badly for her as she probably had selected her seat in advance.
I realize that upgrading can lead to families / couples being seated apart. For me, the uncertainty that comes with last-minute cabin/seat changes, especially when I would prepare in a different fashion for a long-haul in Y vs. J/F, would be too stressful.
Last week on LAXSYD in the hour before boarding the first two pax (who also happened to share at least the first three letters of their surnames) on the upgrade list cleared. 1H and 3D were the only available seats remaining prior to them being upgraded (1D is blocked for crew).
I told my spouse: “I assume we are going to witness a seat swap request.” Sure enough, 1H asked 3H to swap so 1H could sit with her husband, who was upgraded to 3D. 3H didn’t jump at the opportunity, as she probably wasn’t thrilled by moving that much closer to the galley and dealing with the associated light / glare / noise on an overnight flight, not to mention the fact that the area of the bulkhead in front of 1DH is often used as a mid-flight buffet. But after a brief moment of what I can only assume was mental calculus about not appearing to be “inconsiderate”, she agreed. I felt badly for her as she probably had selected her seat in advance.