Speculation: Will AA continue to pull back in NYC?
Feb 12, 2018, 8:38 am
#256
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Austin, TX - AUS
Programs: AA Platinum, Hilton, Hyatt, IHG, Marriott
Posts: 1,625
See "American Has Not Given Up in New York":
https://skift.com/2018/02/12/america...-long-flights/
https://skift.com/2018/02/12/america...-long-flights/
Feb 12, 2018, 9:16 am
#257
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,372
MEM and CLE are completely different hubs and completely different markets. Without a massive connecting hub, those are not markets that support any kind of robust service. He mentioned that the profit margins from NYC business markets are in line with the margins of other hubs. That tells you a lot.
Feb 12, 2018, 11:46 am
#258
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,485
"Not given up"... sure
I mean, I guess I understand the desire to go after business markets, but I think we're getting to the point where the everyday traveler doesn't think of "American Airlines" when they think of JFK. Delta's had relative success out of JFK, and unfortunately, AA never really capitalized on leisure/"smaller" markets out of JFK.
I wouldn't be surprised if they transfer the remaining JFK-MAD flight to IB -- provided that a 777 isn't viable.
My biggest issue is I've seen a significant scale-down of RDU-JFK flights. There were some E-175s mixed in with E-145s through last year, but now they've moved to E-140s and the occasional E-145. Now, it's fewer seats per day than in the early 2000s IIRC. To me, this means they've "given up" on JFK as a connecting point and are trying to route traffic through PHL.
I mean, I guess I understand the desire to go after business markets, but I think we're getting to the point where the everyday traveler doesn't think of "American Airlines" when they think of JFK. Delta's had relative success out of JFK, and unfortunately, AA never really capitalized on leisure/"smaller" markets out of JFK.
I wouldn't be surprised if they transfer the remaining JFK-MAD flight to IB -- provided that a 777 isn't viable.
My biggest issue is I've seen a significant scale-down of RDU-JFK flights. There were some E-175s mixed in with E-145s through last year, but now they've moved to E-140s and the occasional E-145. Now, it's fewer seats per day than in the early 2000s IIRC. To me, this means they've "given up" on JFK as a connecting point and are trying to route traffic through PHL.
I think all of these within-perimeter non-hub routes are going to get cut or go to mostly E-145 in the next few years. They are running out of place to add flights out of JFK, so they've added 6 flights to JFK-PHL and more E145 on JFK-BOS. The first doesn't make connection sense, when LGA-PHL exists. The latter is just a horribly high cost plane for that route.
It's funny that he added JFK-PDX as one of the main business markets, since AA doesn't fly that!
MEM and CLE are completely different hubs and completely different markets. Without a massive connecting hub, those are not markets that support any kind of robust service. He mentioned that the profit margins from NYC business markets are in line with the margins of other hubs. That tells you a lot.
which could also mean they will continue to cut leisure markets like JFK-MCO/RDU/BDA/CUN
Feb 12, 2018, 11:53 am
#260
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC (LGA, JFK), CT
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In all honesty, my upgrade percentages out of JFK/LGA are pretty good as a high EQD Platinum. I imagine I would be further down the list as a DL or UA flier for the routes I fly. Plus, the transcons with Flagship Lounges are great. AA works for me for now.
Feb 12, 2018, 12:44 pm
#261
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Feb 12, 2018, 1:46 pm
#262
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: DCA/CLT/HKG
Programs: AA EXP (Former US CP)
Posts: 731
I was in T8 last week around 7pm-the terminal was essentially a ghost town with a large number of gates vacant-sad to see such a beautiful terminal (arguably the nicest in the NYC area) go to waste.
Feb 12, 2018, 1:54 pm
#263
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: New York
Programs: AA EXP 1.0mm, not sure where I am with hotels these days
Posts: 2,795
The terminal was just taking a deep breath. Many of the Euro bound flights departed, and just ginning up for the final transcons, South/Central America and remaining run(s) to LHR.
Feb 12, 2018, 3:18 pm
#264
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DL: Silver; AA: EX PLAT; UA: Silver; HY: DIA; HH: DIA; MR: TIT
Posts: 1,708
DL has success in tolerating a lot more loss making routes out of JFK, which AA has cut off over time. With the competitive nature of NYC market, it's just hard for DL and AA to turn good profit. So at the end of the day, it really depends on how much money loosing routes they are willing to sustain to keep the corporate clients. From that perspective, AA falls way below DL.
I think all of these within-perimeter non-hub routes are going to get cut or go to mostly E-145 in the next few years. They are running out of place to add flights out of JFK, so they've added 6 flights to JFK-PHL and more E145 on JFK-BOS. The first doesn't make connection sense, when LGA-PHL exists. The latter is just a horribly high cost plane for that route.
It's funny that he added JFK-PDX as one of the main business markets, since AA doesn't fly that!
which could also mean they will continue to cut leisure markets like JFK-MCO/RDU/BDA/CUN
I think all of these within-perimeter non-hub routes are going to get cut or go to mostly E-145 in the next few years. They are running out of place to add flights out of JFK, so they've added 6 flights to JFK-PHL and more E145 on JFK-BOS. The first doesn't make connection sense, when LGA-PHL exists. The latter is just a horribly high cost plane for that route.
It's funny that he added JFK-PDX as one of the main business markets, since AA doesn't fly that!
which could also mean they will continue to cut leisure markets like JFK-MCO/RDU/BDA/CUN
Feb 12, 2018, 3:39 pm
#266
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
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Posts: 5,234
Feb 12, 2018, 4:02 pm
#268
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: LAX/BUR, RDU
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Feb 12, 2018, 6:30 pm
#269
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 5,456
They've admitted quite freely that they've given up on NYC as a connection point. That doesn't mean that they have given up on NYC. It means exactly that the scale and operatings costs of the PHL hub mean it is better and more profitable as a connecting hub to secondary European markets.
Feb 12, 2018, 10:18 pm
#270
Ambassador: Alaska Airlines
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: BWI
Posts: 7,390
Such a shame after pouring in billions to build T8, which is probably the nicest terminal at JFK (never been in T5), and now AA is badly underutilizing the terminal. I do expect some regional flying to be dropped (i.e. PIT) in the near future since big chunk of the O/D traffic goes to LGA or connects via UA @ EWR or DL @ JFK.
I won't be surprised at some point PANYNJ will force AA to make room to let more airlines operate out of T8. Particularly when the time comes for renovations or total rebuild of terminal 1 down the road.
Regardless, AA is setting itself up for operational difficulties with PHL by making PHL their primary TATL hub. Some of the pains are already starting to be felt with some flights being forced to move up earlier or later in the evening given the limited number of wide body gates available at PHL and taxiway congestion problems with larger banks.
I won't be surprised at some point PANYNJ will force AA to make room to let more airlines operate out of T8. Particularly when the time comes for renovations or total rebuild of terminal 1 down the road.
Regardless, AA is setting itself up for operational difficulties with PHL by making PHL their primary TATL hub. Some of the pains are already starting to be felt with some flights being forced to move up earlier or later in the evening given the limited number of wide body gates available at PHL and taxiway congestion problems with larger banks.