no2chem

So I've always had this perception that the US3 were the most horrible carriers. However, I've recently had the chance to fly a LOT of international J, and I've come to realize that even though AA's Y and F products are really dismal compared to other carriers, AA's J product is actually sort of top notch, if you live in the US, and as long as you get one of the planes with lie flat seats. I actually never really thought I'd ever say that about a US3 airline.

Some of the int'l J products I've flown in recent memory include AB (330), AC(330, 773), BA (744, 380, 789), CX (330, 340, 350, 777), EY(772, 773, 330), JL(788), LA(789, 763) LH (330), UA (788) --- and of course AA (763, 772, 773, 788)...

So yes, the soft product on AA pales in comparison to say EY, but AA's got a lot of things going for it if you evaluate the overall situation for a US based flyer:

1) The hard product is really hard to beat. Direct aisle access, wi-fi on at least the 773 and 788, comfy lie-flat and probably the best IFE selection, globally thanks to the partnership with Universal -- compare that to many of the carriers that don't even have direct aisle access. The only products that I think really beat the AA seats are the CX 350 seats and maybe the EY J seats.

2) IRROPS handling is hard to beat as well. In the US, go to any AC and you'll get some of the finest IRROPS handling hands down --- they'll basically do anything within reason for you (put you on another carrier, route you through another cxn point, etc.) - compare that to carriers like BA or LA who basically wave their hands and tell you to take the next days flight... Granted, at outstations, sometimes AA can be a disaster, but if you can make a phone call, usually they'll sort it out for you.

3) Ok, so the ME3 have better soft and hard products. Okay, but unless you're flying TO the middle east, that means connecting in DXB, DOH, or AUH, all of which are kind of out of the way to the places most people are going to from the US to europe/asia. Same goes to CX/SQ unless you're flying to southeast asia. For a US-based flyer, AA will get you to most places in europe/asia/south america pretty reasonably, and for LAX/SFO/JFK-based flyers, connecting via the 321T isn't so bad.

4) As for the food, while AA won't compare to QF, I would say that AA has pretty good food in J, at least for US-based tastes, and the wine selection is reasonable as well.

5) Finally, it seems that many people complain about the FAs on AA. I'd say that the non-attentiveness of AA flight attendants is actually a huge plus: they don't do ridiculously detailed cabin checks during takeoff/landing (maybe due to laziness). Also, they don't do super long annoying announcements in flight, thanks to the videos and probably the laziness of the FAs (compare the JL where you can expect to have an announcement every 5 minutes during the last hour of flight). They'll even let you have your screen out during landing (yeah, BA doesn't let you do that, so no IFE during landing...). The only thing that really annoys me is usually the collection of the bose headphones.

Anyway, I know there are a lot of AA J vs XX J threads, but I thought I'd put it out there that it seems that AA J is in general a fairly safe choice, actually, especially when considering all of the above. And definitely the best out of the US3, which happen to be the most convenient for US-based flyers anyway.

pauleeepaul

The result of the great Bose inquisition is that I have stopped taking the headphones.

Dr. HFH

OK, I'll bite.All common on many international carriers in J.


Not a J product.


... which are identical to the F seats in the transcon AA airbuses as well as the J seats in several other airlines like QR. Manufactured by Zodiac Aerospace, IIRC.


Yes, if you're a member. An AA J ticket does not get you in to the Admiral's Club.


I gather that you don't do many flights on these routes. Lots of people prefer EK, EY and QR because of the additional comfort and service levels on what is undeniably a very long trip.


If you don't travel out of the U.S. very often, perhaps. You don't really know any better. But start to frequent carriers based in other countries and you'll see a huge difference.


Ah, you mean those safety checks where they make sure that your seat belts are fastened, overhead bins are latched shut, etc.? THOSE safety checks? The ones designed to ensure your safety in the event of a mishap? Did you know that in the OZ crash at SFO, none of the people who died were wearing their seat belts?


Great, assuming that you don't need sound with your movie. IIRC AA cabin crew is supposed to collect Bose headsets an hour before landing. And they're not handed out until you're well into the flight. Not at all how it works on foreign carriers. On QR, CX, etc., the headset is waiting at my seat when I board, and I can use it until we're at the gate ready to deplane.

I do agree with this. It's "safe" in terms of being predictable and consistent, even if not that good. Sort of like Howard Johnson's, when it had the monopoly on highway rest stops. At least you knew exactly what the food was going to be regardless of where you were in the U.S. It wasn't great, but it was consistent. (Except for the ice cream!! It had one of the best ice creams I've ever had. Extremely high butterfat content, and not too much sugar.)

I recognize that I may have overlooked the possibility that yours was a joke post, tongue in cheek. In that case, you got me. Completely.

DataPlumber

An International J ticket does get you AC access

arlflyer

OK, I appreciate this post. The quoted statement was made with such...certainty. Thought I'd done lost my mind.

rjw242

If the OP is flying "a LOT of international J," presumably s/he is traveling out of the US quite often. No need to be patronizing, especially since what you're saying is by no means universally true.

PlatinumScum

OP - That's a lot of "ifs".

And you forgot, if your 77W doesn't get swapped for an un-refurbished 772.

nyc6035

FWIW, I generally agree with the OP.

I'll take AA instead of CX in J - for better food (I don't like Chinese food and pork shouldn't be the western meal) and the temperature (air vents vs overheated cabin).

I'll take AA vs BA in J - I really dislike the narrow J seat with the visible neighbor prior to take off in the BA seat.

All of this is positioned assuming I'm on an AA 773, refurbished 772 or 788.

I'm sure QR and EY J are nice (I haven't had a need to connect via ME) but for a US initiated trip - AA (mostly) serves just fine for the long -haul with a partner the rest of the way (BA, JL, CX, etc)

GaryD

So long as it's long-distance J (including trans-continental).

rjw242

Or Central America, or Mexico City, but not most long-distance domestic city pairs... in fact, probably best to just read the access rules if there's any question

MikeLonW7

Good summary. I share a lot of those same observations when it comes to the hard product. Some of AA's competitors are over-rated, and a lot of it is based on historical experiences.

While you can choose your routing and aircraft type to get the right hard product, that is just half the equation. AA's investment in lounges, seats, and meals has produced a great improvement and you can expect consistency for these elements.

Where AA can let you down is with the on-board service. I recently flew business on the excellent refurbed 777-200 from Rio to London via JFK. Even though it was the identical aircraft, the two flight experiences couldn't have been more different. The Latin America leg had disinterested, rude, and unapproachable (bordering on nasty) crew. The transatlantic flight however, had attentive, friendly, helpful crew, and it made all the difference in the world.

It is the inconsistency in the onboard service where AA is not competitive. Unlike other airlines I have flown recently (ie BA/QR/CX) I board AA flights now thinking "What kind of crew and service am I going to get this time." This is one travel element you can't plan for, and it is one that isn't so easy for AA to fix.

SiempreBCNJFK

I think AA has the most varying product. J on the 77W is excellent. On the refurb 772 and 788, they are decent. The refurb 763 is decent as well. However get any unrefurbished or 757s and I think the product is awful. I think your experience will vary tremendously based on the market you live and and where you fly in.

jasondc

I tend to agree with the OP - AA delivers a solid product.

People tend to venerate the ME3, but honestly, I think their products and service tend to be very inconsistent. Sometimes great, Many times lousy, mostly just so so. I lived in AUH for the past 2 years and flew EY constantly in premium cabins. Most of the time it was just okay, nothing special. I will say that the actual seats in J and F are good, but the service more often then not tends to be a let down. a HUGE let down. Furthermore, cutbacks and cheapening in the Food and Beverage are very apparent, especially in F. This past week I flew EY once again - J from DUS to AUH and then F from AUH to IAD after a few days seeing friends in AUH. The J flight on the 789 DUS to AUH was a great J experience. food was good, flight attendants did a great service, and the flight was comfortable in the new J seats. F from AUH to IAD was a total disappointment. Comfortable seat on the 789, but vastly reduced service levels and just incompetence/ laziness from the crew. I've flown that route several times and have noticed a steady decline in service levels during my time doing that. It's sad. Of course, I'm not too surprised about the decline in food and beverage standards - the CEO has said internally that customers don't care about that - they care more about the hard product. Seats are great for sure, but the service just sucked.

Bottom line, the ME3 are very vaunted and quality is so so. If AA or another US carrier works for you then I say go for it. In general I think quality standards are slipping across the board so I say go for whatever has the best combination of schedule/ price/ comort, knowing that service and soft products will vary greatly.

DataPlumber

The thread is clearly referring to long haul. To me it made no sense, to occlude the response with the beach destinations and Canada.

no1cub17

Why didn't AA go with the Cirrus seat for the 77E refurbs and for the 787s? TBH I've never flown the BE Diamond - but no doubt the Cirrus is the best J seat on the market today.