May 27, 2016, 2:35 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
Child Safety Seats & Restraints on American Airlines
See aa.com here.For discussion about AA and infant / lap child fares, see here.
For discussion of baby bassinets, see here.
Acceptable child restraint / harness
Only approved harnesses are Aviation Child Safety Devices (ACSD) showing the FAA aircraft approval label, such as the CARES child safety harness (link); these are not approved for oblique / angled seats (see below).
The CARES child safety harness is for children weighing between 22 and 44 lbs, up to 40 inches tall and occupying their own seat.
Acceptable safety seats
Most safety seats that are approved for use in motor vehicles are acceptable for use in aircraft, but must be approved for aviation use according to the label. The seat must have a solid back and seat, restraint straps installed to securely hold the child and a label indicating approval for use on an aircraft.
The label may include:
- These notes: “This child restraint system conforms to all Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards” and “this restraint is certified for use in motor vehicles and aircrafts” or “this restraint is certified for use in motor vehicles and aircraft.”
- Approval of a foreign government or a label showing that the seat was manufactured under the standards of the United Nations.
Safety seat requirements
- The safety seat can't be used in an exit row or in the rows on either side of an exit row.
- Install the seat in the direction appropriate for the size of the child and according to the instructions on the label.
- The child must remain in the safety seat with the harness fastened during taxi, takeoff, landing and whenever the “fasten seatbelt” sign is on.
- To carry on a safety seat, you must have bought a seat for the child, or a seat must be available next to you. If an unoccupied, adjoining seat is not available, the gate agent will check the safety seat to your final destination.
Aircraft with Business seats not allowing safety seat or restraint use
FAA: "Several air carriers have installed, or plan to install, oblique seats (over an 18 degree angle and up to a 28 degree angle from the aircraft centerline) in their premium class cabins. However, the provisions of Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) part 91, § 91.107, part 121, § 121.311, part 125, § 125.211 and part 135, § 135.128 only allow CRSs to be secured to a forward-facing seat (seats that are installed up to an 18 degree angle from the aircraft centerline)."
"In the future, based on additional dynamic tesing data, the FAA may revise the current requirements. At this time, however, the use of a CRS in an oblique seat is not in compliance with FAA regulations, which require all FAA-approved CRSs be properly secured to an approved forward-facing seat or berth."
"In the future, based on additional dynamic tesing data, the FAA may revise the current requirements. At this time, however, the use of a CRS in an oblique seat is not in compliance with FAA regulations, which require all FAA-approved CRSs be properly secured to an approved forward-facing seat or berth."
- Airbus A330-200 (or A330-300)
- Boeing 777-300ER ("77W")
- Boeing 777-200ER ("772") with all aisle access Business seats
- Boeing 787-8 or 787-9 aircraft
See this page. Under "Safety seat requirements" swipe or click on "View seat width dimensions". Business seats not certified for safety seats show thusly:
Swipe or click on manufacturer, e.g. Airbus
A330-200 Business class 20*/ 20.5" Main Cabin 238 / 16.3 - 17.8"
*Not forward facing seats and not authorized for child restraint systems
REASON: These seats do not face forward (they are oblique / at an angle to the fuselage center line); on at least some of these aircraft, forward facing seats are at an angle requiring supplemental shoulder belt restraints during taxi, takeoff and landing.
*Not forward facing seats and not authorized for child restraint systems
REASON: These seats do not face forward (they are oblique / at an angle to the fuselage center line); on at least some of these aircraft, forward facing seats are at an angle requiring supplemental shoulder belt restraints during taxi, takeoff and landing.
Guide: Child “car” seat or safety restraint / harness on AA (not OK in oblique seats)
Jan 30, 2017, 7:01 pm
#31
Moderator: American AAdvantage
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Welcome to FlyerTalk.
There are two "Dreamliners" in use by AA, with different Business seats: the Boeing 787-8 with Zodiac angled seats - some forward facing, some aft facing (link), and the Boeing 787-9 with angled forward facing B/E Super Diamond (link).
Thesecould have different requirements. The angled seats probably do not allow use of approved infant safety seats because they are angled and do not face fully forward.
There are two "Dreamliners" in use by AA, with different Business seats: the Boeing 787-8 with Zodiac angled seats - some forward facing, some aft facing (link), and the Boeing 787-9 with angled forward facing B/E Super Diamond (link).
These
Last edited by JDiver; Jan 31, 2017 at 10:49 am
Jan 30, 2017, 9:23 pm
#32
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: DFW - DL MM/SM, AA 5MM/CK, MR LT Titanium
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We had booked a seat for our infant on a 773 LAX-DFW in December. After half an hour of trying with the help of the purser, I can verify that the airbag seatbelts won't work with a carseat installed properly. We opted to hold him in our lap for the relatively short flight.
I later called and asked about this. According to the CK AAgent that looked into this for me, the angled biz class seats with the airbag seatbelts are not approved for use with car seats. This includes the B777-300 and retrofitted 777-200 as well as the 788 & 789.
For a child that is old enough to travel safely without a carseat, the 787 or retrofit 772 would be a better choice in J than a 773. It really isn't possible to reach a child in any adjacent seat in a 773 when buckled up.
I later called and asked about this. According to the CK AAgent that looked into this for me, the angled biz class seats with the airbag seatbelts are not approved for use with car seats. This includes the B777-300 and retrofitted 777-200 as well as the 788 & 789.
For a child that is old enough to travel safely without a carseat, the 787 or retrofit 772 would be a better choice in J than a 773. It really isn't possible to reach a child in any adjacent seat in a 773 when buckled up.
Jan 31, 2017, 2:57 am
#33
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Posts: 70
We have actually flown with our son a few times on the 787. Here's what I know:
To properly install the car seat with seats that have airbag seatbelts, you need to use a seatbelt extender. The seatbelt extender de-activates the seat belt (all seat belts I've seen with airbags have this written on their underside). Its annoying but you have to wrap the seatbelt and extender around the seat to properly secure it.
The problem is there was an FAA memo that came out a while back (I had a copy of it on my other computer and I cant find it on the web this second) which basically said that car seats can't be used in any seats that are angled off the main axis of the plan. The 787 business seats are angled into the aisles and are not head on.
That being said, most crews dont know the specifics of why child seats cant go in business class. I learned about the angled seat business after I got in an argument with the HND staff when they tried to tell me child seats cant be flown on the 787, even though we flew out to HND from LAX with my son strapped in his car seat in business and the crew didnt say anything to us.
To properly install the car seat with seats that have airbag seatbelts, you need to use a seatbelt extender. The seatbelt extender de-activates the seat belt (all seat belts I've seen with airbags have this written on their underside). Its annoying but you have to wrap the seatbelt and extender around the seat to properly secure it.
The problem is there was an FAA memo that came out a while back (I had a copy of it on my other computer and I cant find it on the web this second) which basically said that car seats can't be used in any seats that are angled off the main axis of the plan. The 787 business seats are angled into the aisles and are not head on.
That being said, most crews dont know the specifics of why child seats cant go in business class. I learned about the angled seat business after I got in an argument with the HND staff when they tried to tell me child seats cant be flown on the 787, even though we flew out to HND from LAX with my son strapped in his car seat in business and the crew didnt say anything to us.
Jan 31, 2017, 3:02 am
#34
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This thread (and these posts in particular) have the correct answer:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/26695029-post28.html
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/26690857-post11.html
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/26695029-post28.html
You're right - I found it. FAA permits Child Safety Restraints in seats that face forward and seats that are angled no more than 18 degrees, but as of September, 2015, FAA prohibits CRS in oblique seats angled more than 18 degrees:
https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/avia.../InFO15011.pdf
AA's fail here is by not posting the FAA prohibition and/or link with adequate explanation. Something like "The FAA does not permit any CRS in our new oblique angled business class seats on the 787, 77W and 772."
Had AA provided that on the web page, the OP (and everyone else) would be more fully aware of the rules. Similarly, DL fails as well.
https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/avia.../InFO15011.pdf
AA's fail here is by not posting the FAA prohibition and/or link with adequate explanation. Something like "The FAA does not permit any CRS in our new oblique angled business class seats on the 787, 77W and 772."
Had AA provided that on the web page, the OP (and everyone else) would be more fully aware of the rules. Similarly, DL fails as well.
...Note that the same page [https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...eatdimensions] indicates the "772" refurbished Boeing 777-200ER (16 of 47 777-200ER hulls currently), the Boeing 777-300ER "77W" and the Boeing 787-8 "Dreamliner" Business class also do not permit use of car seats.
Last edited by JonNYC; Jan 31, 2017 at 3:10 am
Jan 31, 2017, 7:22 am
#36
Join Date: Nov 2003
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May 2, 2017, 2:28 pm
#37
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Here and there
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Posts: 1,552
The seat dimensions page no longer contains the information listed in the Wiki about which seats are not forward facing. I don't imagine that this means it is now allowable to use car seats on angled seats, unless this FAA guidance has been rescinded.
Nov 29, 2017, 7:45 pm
#39
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Standard recommendation on these forums is the CARES harness, for kids 22-44 pounds, http://kidsflysafe.com/
Nov 29, 2017, 7:47 pm
#40
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Nov 30, 2017, 8:23 am
#42
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/Moderator
Aug 6, 2018, 4:28 pm
#43
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: SGN
Programs: Hyatt Diamond, Delta Plat
Posts: 84
Car seat with toddler
First time travelling with my toddler (18months old) from ORD to SNA on AA. Bought a seat for her. My question is: am I required to have a car seat for her to sit on her own seat? Wife and I have been back and forth on whether to bring it on the airplane, so just check it. The nightmare would be her not liking it after like 5min on the airplane, then we have no way to store it after we remove it... Sorry if this is the wrong place to post.
Aug 6, 2018, 4:44 pm
#44
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wyoming
Programs: AAdvantage Gold, HHonors Gold
Posts: 114
First time travelling with my toddler (18months old) from ORD to SNA on AA. Bought a seat for her. My question is: am I required to have a car seat for her to sit on her own seat? Wife and I have been back and forth on whether to bring it on the airplane, so just check it. The nightmare would be her not liking it after like 5min on the airplane, then we have no way to store it after we remove it... Sorry if this is the wrong place to post.
Aug 6, 2018, 6:01 pm
#45
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: SGN
Programs: Hyatt Diamond, Delta Plat
Posts: 84
out of curiosity, do you find your kids sleep easier with or without the car seat?