Originally Posted by simongr
(Post 7684660)
Not sure why some people are wishing the op's friend good luck - they broke the rules and were busted - they need to take whatever is dished out.
Originally Posted by simongr
(Post 7684660)
I wonder if gifting eVIPs in CC but demanding a donation to charity is a breach of T&Cs...
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A very friendly member of this forum gifted me 2 eVIPs in March for my MR. On first contact with AA at the transfer desk at LGW there was obviously some kind of prompt on the information screen as I was asked a couple of questions about the person who gifted me the eVIPs, and the nature of the "gift".
I guess I answered all questions satisfactorily, plus the fact that they were laughing at my itinerary and my 6 boarding passes probably helped. |
Originally Posted by BobbySteel
(Post 7684694)
I have never sold miles, but AA would have much more to lose in terms of my business going away than they would by recouping a few grand in mileage value. It's in their best interest to be pretty lenient in situations like this - why would anyone stay w/ AA when your AAdvantage account was running at negative? Hell, just create a new account and let them try to catch you...
It's a deterrent - its like jailing a high profile high tax paying CFO who makes a few "judgement" calls in his accounting treatments - it puts other people off doing the same... @GUWonder I am harsh but fair when I am auditing people - mostly harsh though ;) |
Originally Posted by BobbySteel
(Post 7684694)
but AA would have much more to lose in terms of my business going away than they would by recouping a few grand in mileage value. It's in their best interest to be pretty lenient in situations like this
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Originally Posted by simongr
(Post 7684660)
It makes wonder as an auditor whether there is a vindictive streak...
So I'll just say that they are the nicest, most benevolent, best looking people in the whole organization. :) Better safe than sorry. |
Originally Posted by spanishflea
(Post 7684715)
A very friendly member of this forum gifted me 2 eVIPs in March for my MR. On first contact with AA at the transfer desk at LGW there was obviously some kind of prompt on the information screen as I was asked a couple of questions about the person who gifted me the eVIPs, and the nature of the "gift".
I guess I answered all questions satisfactorily, plus the fact that they were laughing at my itinerary and my 6 boarding passes probably helped. |
Originally Posted by JonNYC
(Post 7684806)
So I'll just say that they are the nicest, most benevolent, best looking people in the whole organization.
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If they are even a semi decent auditor they will see through the flattery quite quickly and be trying to work out who you are and how best to stick the knife in. Now if you knew the name of someone you could give them - that would be entirely different :)
Some days my less than nice audit side sneaks out - normally late afternoon on a FRiday when I havent spent lunch in the pub ;) |
Instead of hearing that many people are caught, I'd like to know the percentage. It could be that most people who sell miles DON'T get caught. I don't know myself, but I'm just saying...
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I'll say right up front that I'm probably not going to be around during the next few days in order to debate this, so save your flames. That said -
To those of you taking note of the very clear nature of the violation and the appropriateness of punishment I simply say: Just because the airlines (including AA) stipulate that transfers of this type are a violation of their rules, and have the power to punish you, does not make the activity conceptually 'wrong'. I'm not advocating breaking their rules. I'm just saying that the disbursement of miles is a BUSINESS, and one way or another we're effectively buying the miles. And while, legally speaking, we're agreeing to live by airline rules when we do so, that doesn't mean the airlines have any moral right to those rules. Their ability to implement and enforce them doesn't make them 'right'. I don't consider it likely, but a difference in political wind or judicial philosophy could one day result in a legislative or judiciary decision to nullify airline rules. |
Originally Posted by JDiver
(Post 7681710)
Your friend should be told exactly what JonNYC has posted. I as well most heartily recommend full disclosure and cooperation. And no recidivism, as well - AA are not as tolerant of repeat offenders.
IMPO, selling miles is basically theft: they are, AFAIK, AA's miles, which (also IMO) is part of the reason we do not pay taxes on miles, why we do not gain any tax benefit from donating miles to acceptable charities and why AA can enforce their terms and conditions on how they are to be used - or not. They are nice enough to allow us to allow us to use those miles to acquire travel and other benefits for family, friends, etc. but we need to adhere to the T&Cs for our "AAccounts" to live long and prosper. However, technically, if you get them from work, you should pay tax. Also, you can be damn sure that if you WIN miles, you pay tax and you can deduct if you give those miles to charity. |
Originally Posted by BobbySteel
(Post 7684694)
I have never sold miles, but AA would have much more to lose in terms of my business going away than they would by recouping a few grand in mileage value. It's in their best interest to be pretty lenient in situations like this - why would anyone stay w/ AA when your AAdvantage account was running at negative? Hell, just create a new account and let them try to catch you...
The rules are pretty clear on this subject. |
Originally Posted by firespirit
(Post 7683877)
I'm curious how they know...
(1) He had bought it at eBay as a routine transaction and not bothered to set up a cover story with the seller. (2) When he arrived for the return check in, some red flag was already up and they started asking him a few personal question about himself and his friend. Now imagine not knowing how old "your friend" is (25 or 75?), if he is black or white, where he lives or what he does. ["But wait, I do have his Paypal ID written somewhere, doesn't that help?":)] (3) At this point, realizing how stupid anything else would sound, my friend just admitted he had bought the ticket and cooperated with their questions. They didn't say what had raised the intial suspicion, but told him they had already spoken with the seller, who also didn't know much about my friend. (4) He remebers the staff as being professional but courteous, and not mean, who even thanked him for being cooperative. They offered him the return ticket at a price which was not bargain, but not punitive either, and he bought it. My guess is, that the airline staff knew that they had no judicial powers and not much leverage over a grad student who wasn't even a member of their program. He was still a potential customer with other options in a market they obviously understood. If their demands seemed unreasonable, he could just walk away. So making a competitive offer was a smart move as they still made a sale. :) My friend had not paid enough attention to know if the seller was a "frequent seller" at eBay. We obviosuly don't know what raised the initial suspicion and what happened to him. |
[QUOTE=
My friend had not paid enough attention to know if the seller was a "frequent seller" at eBay. We obviosuly don't know what raised the initial suspicion and what happened to him.[/QUOTE] But even this opens a paradoxical can of worms: A 'frequent seller' might mean the buyer is more likely to be busted (as any of the seller's other transactions can spell doom for the buyer). a non-frequent seller means buyer is more likely to be ripped off in that specific transaction... AA auditors must be smiling-- it's unwinnable, in terms of game-theory at least-- |
I have a minus of 50k miles in my UA account... for about 3 years now. This dont result from selling or buying miles but from another, maybe not kosher act from my side which I dont want to defend.
Good thing: I flew my award and they detected it afterwards, then deducted the miles. I changed the address to somewhere in north africa where I worked for a while (I know they have records!) but anyways... I dont think they can make me pay for anything or what do you think? |
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