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-   -   Exception to 4 hour Stopover Rule (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1540924-exception-4-hour-stopover-rule.html)

guv1976 Jul 16, 2015 12:59 pm

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Originally Posted by iplaybass
I am going to fly SXM-MIA-STL, but the SXM-MIA flight doesn't arrive early enough (18:27) for me to catch the MIA-STL LFO. How much of a good night's sleep can I get before I violate the rule? The next direct flight isn't until 14:13 the next day, but there are many options via DFW/ORD. This is going to be a paid J ticket, but I don't want to be forced onto the 5:30 DFW flight the next day.

Don't you get 24 hours to get on flights to/from SXM? Or is the Caribbean not considered "international" for connection purposes?

Exec_Plat Jul 16, 2015 1:19 pm

I just booked CRW-CLT-DFW-SFO as one award:

CRW-CLT-DFW (land at DFW at midnight-ish) then DFW-SFO (leaves DFW at 9AM)

($120 for a room at the Grand Hyatt)

Over the phone. Why bother with AA.com?

All domestic.

dwcatty Jul 19, 2015 5:32 am

I'm not trying to be cranky, but can anyone help me clarify this? Many thanks.


Originally Posted by dwcatty (Post 25124970)
I'm still trying to wrap my brain around this issue. I'm also in the market for an <east coast>-<gateway airport>-Hawaii itinerary. I think I have three options. Can anyone review and confirm? Thanks.

1) The 21 hour travel day all in one go routing. This would be something like a 7 am departure from AVL with an 8 pm (local time) arrival in HA.

2) LIFO. This would allow us to fly to a gateway the evening before and catch the AS or HA flights the next morning.

3) The 18 hour exception. Here we could also fly on US or AA metal to one of the three AA HA gateways (DFW, PHX or LAX) the night before and get any AA or US flight the next day as long as it was within the 18 hour window and NOT be required to take the first morning flight out.


Often1 Jul 19, 2015 6:16 am

Carriers are free to set their own fare rules, including for stop-overs. The question to ask yourself is: 1) what routing and flights do I want AND 2) what does that cost. Worrying about whehter the stop is a connection or a stopover is not your issue, particularly because the booking system constructs the fare.

Thus, if you carrier allows an 18-hour stopover at a mainland gateway enroute to HI, and you want that time at the gateway and the fare is right, grab it.

Understand that if you need to make changes, refaring a discounted ticket can become awfully expensive. Maybe you lose the 18 hours, maybe the fare doesn't work with your gateway city and so on.

dwcatty Jul 19, 2015 6:20 am

Sorry I wasn't clear. This is on award ticket routing.

JonNYC Jul 19, 2015 11:04 am


Originally Posted by dwcatty (Post 25139177)
I'm not trying to be cranky, but can anyone help me clarify this? Many thanks.

Unless I'm missing something, I think you laid it out correctly in terms of the 3 options.

guv1976 Jul 19, 2015 1:09 pm

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Originally Posted by dwcatty
I'm not trying to be cranky, but can anyone help me clarify this? Many thanks.


Originally Posted by dwcatty (Post 25124970)
I'm still trying to wrap my brain around this issue. I'm also in the market for an <east coast>-<gateway airport>-Hawaii itinerary. I think I have three options. Can anyone review and confirm? Thanks.

1) The 21 hour travel day all in one go routing. This would be something like a 7 am departure from AVL with an 8 pm (local time) arrival in HA.

2) LIFO. This would allow us to fly to a gateway the evening before and catch the AS or HA flights the next morning.

3) The 18 hour exception. Here we could also fly on US or AA metal to one of the three AA HA gateways (DFW, PHX or LAX) the night before and get any AA or US flight the next day as long as it was within the 18 hour window and NOT be required to take the first morning flight out.


I believe that #3 is incorrect. I think the rule gives you up to 18 hours to connect, but requires you to take the first available flight out of the connecting city. If the first available flight is the earliest, you must take it; if that flight is not available, then you must take the next available flight within 18 hours of your arrival at the connecting city.

Google "AA 18-hour connection" and you'll find the text of the rule.

JonNYC Jul 19, 2015 1:24 pm


Originally Posted by guv1976 (Post 25140812)
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I believe that #3 is incorrect. I think the rule gives you up to 18 hours to connect, but requires you to take the first available flight out of the connecting city. If the first available flight is the earliest, you must take it; if that flight is not available, then you must take the next available flight within 18 hours of your arrival at the connecting city.

Google "AA 18-hour connection" and you'll find the text of the rule.

Takes you right back to the same portion I posted unthread-- lucky's link to this:
http://www.travelingbetter.com/showthread.php?t=5813

dwcatty Jul 19, 2015 2:37 pm


Originally Posted by guv1976 (Post 25140812)
I believe that #3 is incorrect. I think the rule gives you up to 18 hours to connect, but requires you to take the first available flight out of the connecting city. If the first available flight is the earliest, you must take it; if that flight is not available, then you must take the next available flight within 18 hours of your arrival at the connecting city.

See, this is the crux of my question. For example, suppose is a fight from CLT-LAX that arrives at 11:30 pm, and flights from LAX-OGG at 8:00 am and 5:00 pm the next day. The 8:00 am flight would either be a very long layover in the airport or a very short sleep in a hotel, what with transfers, check in/out etc. The 5:00 pm flight would be within the 18 hour window and allow us to leisurely transfer to the hotel, get some sleep, enjoy our day, get to the airport when we felt like it and not rushed, and then fly on.

There are similar late arrivals into PHX and DFW and early morning flights on that I would like to avoid if the 18 hour rule lets us. So for my purposes there is a big difference between any flight within 18 hours and the ~next available flight~ within 18 hours.

All this would be moot if I felt assured I could get a LI/FO on AS or HA from one of their west coast gateways, but availability isn't always there and I'm trying to have as many options available to me as I can when the time to book (coming up soon) arrives.

Thanks again for all of your help with interpretation of this.

JonNYC Jul 19, 2015 2:42 pm


Originally Posted by dwcatty (Post 25141165)
See, this is the crux of my question. For example, suppose is a fight from CLT-LAX that arrives at 11:30 pm, and flights from LAX-OGG at 8:00 am and 5:00 pm the next day. The 8:00 am flight would either be a very long layover in the airport or a very short sleep in a hotel, what with transfers, check in/out etc. The 5:00 pm flight would be within the 18 hour window and allow us to leisurely transfer to the hotel, get some sleep, enjoy our day, get to the airport when we felt like it and not rushed, and then fly on.

There are similar late arrivals into PHX and DFW and early morning flights on that I would like to avoid if the 18 hour rule lets us. So for my purposes there is a big difference between any flight within 18 hours and the ~next available flight~ within 18 hours.

All this would be moot if I felt assured I could get a LI/FO on AS or HA from one of their west coast gateways, but availability isn't always there and I'm trying to have as many options available to me as I can when the time to book (coming up soon) arrives.

Thanks again for all of your help with interpretation of this.

You can connect within 18 hours, no need to take the next flight within that window, just like it is on the 4hr connection and 24hr connection. Only LIFO requires you be on the very next flight.

guv1976 Jul 19, 2015 3:14 pm

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Originally Posted by JonNYC

Originally Posted by dwcatty (Post 25141165)
See, this is the crux of my question. For example, suppose is a fight from CLT-LAX that arrives at 11:30 pm, and flights from LAX-OGG at 8:00 am and 5:00 pm the next day. The 8:00 am flight would either be a very long layover in the airport or a very short sleep in a hotel, what with transfers, check in/out etc. The 5:00 pm flight would be within the 18 hour window and allow us to leisurely transfer to the hotel, get some sleep, enjoy our day, get to the airport when we felt like it and not rushed, and then fly on.

There are similar late arrivals into PHX and DFW and early morning flights on that I would like to avoid if the 18 hour rule lets us. So for my purposes there is a big difference between any flight within 18 hours and the ~next available flight~ within 18 hours.

All this would be moot if I felt assured I could get a LI/FO on AS or HA from one of their west coast gateways, but availability isn't always there and I'm trying to have as many options available to me as I can when the time to book (coming up soon) arrives.

Thanks again for all of your help with interpretation of this.

You can connect within 18 hours, no need to take the next flight within that window, just like it is on the 4hr connection and 24hr connection. Only LIFO requires you be on the very next flight.

If that's true, then the rule you posted is very poorly drafted:

"For travel within US/Canada and applicable to all AA revenue and AA award travel, no stopover occurs if a passenger takes next available flight;

Within 4 hours

Within/between US/CA and PRVI (except as specified below in 18 hours section)

Within 18 hours

For tickets issued on/after July 01, 2014

Travel between US50/CA and ACK, AEX, ALO, ANC, ART, ASE, BFL, BIS, BOI, BPT, BRO, CRW, CWA, DBQ, EGE, ELM, ERI, EUG, EVV, EYW, FNT, GCK, GEG, GGG, GRI, GUC, HDN, IPT, JAC, JLN, LCH, MLB, MLU, MQT, MTJ, MVY, RAP, RDM, ROW, SPI, SUX, TOL, TVC, TXK

Travel between US and CA.

For tickets issued on/after July 02, 2014 – between US/CA and Hawaii/Alaska" (Bolding mine.)

ChiefNWA Jul 20, 2015 6:13 am

Quick question on if this would work. Say for example, LAX-HKG on Saturday opened (the 1PM), nothing else was open. Would I be able to fly in the night before TPA-LAX and spend the night. Technically I'm coming in on the last available flight and would be taking the next available flight, however this would go over the 4 hour rule.

guv1976 Jul 20, 2015 6:18 am

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Originally Posted by ChiefNWA
Quick question on if this would work. Say for example, LAX-HKG on Saturday opened (the 1PM), nothing else was open. Would I be able to fly in the night before TPA-LAX and spend the night. Technically I'm coming in on the last available flight and would be taking the next available flight, however this would go over the 4 hour rule.

The 4-hour rule does not apply if you're going to HKG. On international awards, you get up to 24 hours to connect -- even within the U.S.


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