Award Travel - Recourse for Schedule / Equipment Changes (consolidated)
 

Just wanted to see if anyone on here had any experience with this or how they would handle it.

I'm going from DFW to Las Vegas this summer. I booked my trip in first class using a 50k mileage award.

OUT:
DFW-LAS (757)

IN:
LAS - ORD (S80)
ORD - DFW (777)

I went ahead and decided to go out of my way for the ride home to fly in the 777 first class cabin since I've never flown in it before. I was scheduled to have a 2 1/2 hour layover in Chicago (arrive at 3:55, depart at 6:30). Well, when they revised the summer schedule, my flight from ORD to DFW was changed to a S80 and bumped to a 7:00 departure, and the 777 flight was moved to a 5:30 departure. I called AA, and they're telling me that they have no 50k award seats available on the 777 flight now. Is there a way I can get my seat back on the 777, or am I stuck at the mercy of what AA says they have in their award inventory?

Equipment is not guaranteed on paid or award reservations. The airline argues one is still presented with a First cabin - the fact that it's not as nice a First cabin is irrelevant, in their view.

Everything 3Cforme says is true. I'd still try calling back- a number of times, if required- to get an agent who can find the inventory or one who will try and make it happen. It can't hurt to try. Good luck.

Cheers.

Unfortunately, the 777 ORD-DFW (and DFW-ORD for that matter) will be discontinued on April 7th and from that point on, all service on this route will be S80 service. This does suck, as it's going to leave MIA-LAX-MIA (AFAIK) as the only remaining domestic 777 service.

Source?

It's still bookable on aa.com thru end of schedule, on April 7 and any other day I searched.

Says who? Its still in the system and was able to book for post mid-April. Still shows up on the res.

I looked at the PDF timetable on aa.com.

Edit: You are correct in that it still shows up in res but this is almost certainly an error because I did double check the timetable just now and it does show the aforementioned discontinuation of the 777. I also recall reading about this somewhere but can't find it now (I think it was on airliners.net).

However, the OP can ask to be rebooked on the flight of his choice, regardless of inventory due to 240/80. All AA needs to have available are actual seats. Now, if the 777 goes away as speculated on here, then that is another story.

But, assuming the 777 is still flying that route when the OP is traveling and they have seats in ANY inventory available, AA should/will put him on it

Calling AA, armed with info is good advice

Cheers

Inasmuch as 240/80 no longer exists (and the quoting of it from the Agency section is not relevant) this is just not true. They are not required to do anything of the sort. It would be nice if they did, but the don't have to, and may well not if there is no inventory for award seating.

Cheers.

Your first mistake is in relying on the .pdf timetable. The .pdf timetable is notoriously unreliable. Last year, for about a month, it showed but three DFW-LAX flights.

Page 8, showing ORD-DFW (p 11 of the .pdf) shows 2349 changing to an MD-83 yet omits 2345 becoming the 777. See page 13 (p 16 of the .pdf); no cancellation.

Your other error is in posting nonsense from airliners.net. ;)

I understand that the actual law where the terminology rule 240/80 does no longer exist.

However, it is a well documented fact, even on here, that AA abides by its internal policy called 240/80. Does the OP have a legal right to demand that they abide by their own rules? I am not a lawyer nor do I presume to be one.

All I know is that if you quote rule 240/80 you are much more likely to get what you want and AA has committed to in writing. And yes, the agency section is very relevant.

If there is a seat, the OP is entitled to getting it, in this situation

Interesting. I'll have to keep that in mind. I certainly hope that it doesn't go away because I've been wanting to get on that flight for a while now. I never get a chance to fly widebodies domestically and as a matter of fact, when I flew ORD-SFO on a 763 this month, this was my first domestic widebody flight in probably a decade. Anyway, I could have sworn I read about discontinuation of the 777 service on ORD-DFW recently. This, coupled with the info on the timetable, made me sure that this was going to happen. I hope that with all the upcoming summer changes (i.e. DFW-MAD, etc.) that this route will, in fact, stick around.

240/80 is not part of the contract and OP has no legal (or otherwise) rights in this case. Under US law, you're at the mercy of the airline's unilateral 'conditions of carriage' which you had to accept by default when you purchased your ticket (whether for cash or accrued credit, a.k.a. "miles"). In AA's case, they state:I know it sucks, but that's U.S. Congress for you.

brp is cheerfully correct. But so are you:

Why not just take a nonstop.
It's not worth connecting for, if you aren't earning miles.
You are making a 1055 mile flight into a 2315 mile trip.
Just to sit in a 777 seat for over 1500 miles and an MD80 for the other 800???

This flight has been flown with a widebody aircraft for nearly 20 years. It has been flown using 767s, DC-10s and MD-11s prior to 1999 when the 777s were delivered. The widebody is flown on this route as a hot spare for ORD and DFW departures. Given that it has lasted thru various recessions and the post-September 11 traffic fall-off, I doubt that it's going away.

Here's a thread from two weeks ago reporting that some FAs on the route reported to the OP of that thread that the 777 would be pulled from the route:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...w-ord-dfw.html

No, there is no entitlement since there is no law. Whether they do it or not is one thing, but there is no entitlement.

AA have been quite good about this, for the most part, with revenue tickets- maybe since a revenue seat is a revenue seat. From my reading here, in general, it seems it's been tougher to get the same accommodation on award tickets.

I do think that they should do it, but the do not have to. As I suggested above, I think the OP should call back until someone either finds appropriate award revenue on the desired flight, or just does the right thing and moves them.

The Agency section is not relevant to the Conditions of Carriage that govern the relationship between passenger and airline. It is hardly the quagmire that hillrider paints :), but there are no assurances.

Cheers.

I understand that there is no rule governing the application of 240/80 that AA has to abide by, however, when AA has published it online and it is part of their policy (with agencies, per say), why is it unreasonable to expect the rule's applications when the conditions permit?

I even understand that CoC does not explicitly state the policy, but that should not limit AA's liability and responsibility towards a published rule. Even if it is targeted towards agencies, does that mean one is more protected when booking through a travel agent vs AA directly? (If anything, it should be the other way around, but thats not the point).

The OP's case is different as in he just had a schedule change of 30-60 minutes. Equipment is never guaranteed. I would not be outraged if they refuse OP's request, but surprised if they did, as it is just a small favor to provide an excellent Customer Service, where the OP's intent is duly noted and he is not trying to scam the system to change dates, or request refund, etc. What I am concerned about is the overwhelming agreement that AA does not need to abide by Rule 240/80. If one is traveling during a peak season to a foreign country and experiences IIROPs due to mechanical on the way back, will s/he get stuck there until they find the next available free seat which could be days instead of re-accommodating on another airline - which, to me, is the whole point of even having that policy - getting to the destination in a reasonable time using external means, when necessary.

First, I completely agree that they should do it, and should be bound by this. It's "weasely" to have no legal bindings. So, I'm just commenting from what I believe they currently have to do.

I think even the part in the Agency section is just a suggestion, and not even binding there...so not really binding to anyone.

IME and, admittedly, this is as EXP, they've always done the "right thing" when I've asked. In some cases they didn't know what the "right thing" was, so it was good that I was armed with information. I just think that they have nothing requiring them to do most of these things. In this case, going in with an air of entitlement may not be the best approach. Asking, rather than demanding (as one might do if there was entitlement).

Cheers.

Rules 240 and 80 are still around - they just don't say what they used to say prior to 1979.

Here's the agency reference: http://www.aa.com/content/agency/Boo...e_240_80.jhtml

Nothing in there giving customers any rights to demand anything other than a refund if AA's accommodations are unsatisfactory. Nothing permitting customers to demand OA flights.

As has been pointed out numerous times, AA will often do the right thing, like reaccommodate passengers on OA when things go wrong, but AA is under no obligation to do so. Hasn't been for 30 years.

I would go as far as saying 'demanding or entitlement' is always the wrong approach in consumer business. In the end, AA is 'entitled' not to do business with you by refunding your fare, which is usually not the best case scenario. Suggesting the alternatives and even referring the 240/80 rule when things are not going right should be the right approach - all done in a calm negotiation. If an item is on sale and out of stock, not every store gives out a raincheck at that price.

I always carry a printout from the AA's website of 240/80 just in case, but would rather deal with the EXP agents on the phone than at the airport as airport agents are likely to be bombarded with other distressed (and possibly demanding) passengers to carry a calm conversation.

First, I'll admit that I did not read this entire thread because I find the whole rule whatever debate -- which we have over and over -- intollerable and unnecessary.

In my experience, anytime there's been a schedule change, all I've had to do is call AA, tell them that they've changed my schedule to something that doesn't work for me, and ask to change to different flights that do work. On occasion, an agent has responded that the inventory is not available. In almost every case where that has happened, I have very politely reminded them that inventory availability shouldn't matter when they're accommodating a passenger who's schedule has been changed involuntarily by the airline (I sometimes use the phrase "involuntary reroute," which I have learned has some magic meaning to them), and they almost always have agreed to make the change. In those very rare cases where they would not make the change, I have politely hung up and called back to speak with a different agent. I have never failed to resolve a situation like this satisfactorily. I have never had to cite real or pretend rules. I have never had to adopt a DYKWIA attitude.

Same here. I just wonder if it might be somewhat harder on a SAAver award because they may look for the specific inventory. I've never tried it in that case. All of my successful dealings have been on revenue tickets.

Cheers.

And more so the fact that the OP is technically on the same flight which just moved 30 mins. IME, 30 min schedule change does not yield to a 'book me on any flight I would prefer' change. Its hardly considered a schedule change.

I will know when I try to cancel a trip today that I cannot take, which has gone through a 30 min. schedule change. The total is the same as the change fee per person, so I do not expect anything and have assumed that loss already. Now, the best thing would be that AA gives me the mileage credit for it. Doesn't hurt to ask :)

My experience has been similar, while not using the specific term, but mentioning to the agent that the schedule change is the airlines' responsibility. OTOH, I have not really attempted to get accomodated to specific equipment, but just been focussed on arr/dep times using different routing.

Maybe this explains Blumie's experience after using the involuntary reroute term...

(from the 240/80 link posted a few postings ago...)

Protection For Schedule Change
Passengers are to be protected by one of the following polices:

1. On AA flights in the same inventory/date as ticketed, if available. If same inventory is not available, rebook in the lowest available inventory in the same cabin as ticketed. If a flight is not available on the same date, or is not acceptable to the customer, they may be rebooked on the previous or next day. Customers may be rebooked over a different routing (same origination and destination) as long as it is a valid routing for the fare being used.

The PNR must be documented with the following OSI:
OSI AA INVOL REROUTE/AA FLIGHT NUMBER/DATE/CXLD OR SKED CHG

Well, I did ask. Called the EXP Desk and mentioned thfrat I canceled due to a schedule change (a mere 30 mins late departure on the outbound). She immediately mentioned that we can change it but since its 150.55, we only get 55 towards the next ticket as its not a major schedule change. Then offered (without me saying a word) to issue paper vouchers in the TOTAL amount. I asked about mileage credit instead but got shot down. Happily accepted the refund.

This alone makes me think that EXP is worth every penny (although, might not be limited to EXP agents, but I like to think so).

I should note that the phrase "involuntary reroute" was quite successful, and AA adjusted my schedule to put me on the flight that the 777 was moved to. It took a second call to an agent, but they took care of it. ^

Good to know. Another factoid to be filed away, thanks to FT...:)

Awesome.. that is good news. Glad it worked out for you.

Seems like we always have the same discussion around this. There is no legal requirement for AA to do what agency rule 80/240 states. yet, they seem to do it every time. Results are what matter, not the legal basis in this case.

Schedule Change to Award Ticket
 

American has changed schedules to AXA flights. I have had an award ticket booked for 9 months, but their latest schedule change now requires an overnight layover on the return...meaining extra hotel, parking, baby sitter expenses. Will American pay for the hotel?

Wirelessly posted (Opera/9.60 (J2ME/MIDP; Opera Mini/4.1.11355/670; U; en) Presto/2.2.0)

No. They will let you change ur flights or possibly refund your miles and waive redeposit fees.

Welcome to FT.

They will definitely waive the fees for redeposit, if you choose to do that.

Better yet, research flights that better fit your schedule. Going in with actual data helps quite a bit. Even if there is no award availability, it is not uncommon for them to grant the change- particularly in a case like this where the change has forced an overnight. Be nice about if, of course, and not demanding in tone- they don't actually have to do it. Also, it may take more than one call, but it should be very possible.

Cheers.

Does anyone know if there is a standard for when a schedule change on an award ticket will permit a redeposit of miles without a fee? A change that creates an overnight layover would have to satisfy that standard, but is there a brightline of a schedule change meaning you'll now arive X hours later in order to qualify or is it just at the discretion of whoever you get when you call? Thanks.

Don't know about award tickets, but they definitely seem think that for revenue tickets, a 2 hour change is significant enough to permit you to change without a change fee.

This has happened to me, and in general it's great news. I've simply found whatever the next best routing is and asked (politely) to be reaccomodated. This has usually resulted in a better schedule than I originally had. If you're going to ask for something other than the next earliest or next latest flight, it's useful to have some excuses, er, reasons why that might not work (schedule doesn't work, trying to fly with a friend etc), but in my experience they've never hassled me. Asking to be reaccomodated on a direct flight (assuming there is one) should be easy as well.

I have not seen any evidence that AA treats award tickets any differently than they do revenue tickets when it comes to schedule changes. Certainly you get the occasional agent who thinks s/he needs to find award inventory to change your flight, but I've always had success either reminding the agent of my "involuntary reroute" status or politely hanging up and calling back to get what I've wanted. And I've never had to make any excuse for making the change, other than that the flights they've chose to reaccommodate me on don't work for my schedule.

So it sounds like there is no specific guideline and that changing flights/redepositing miles without a fee can be done as long as some reasonable basis exists for saying the change doesn't work for your schedule. Thanks for all the responses.

There are very specific guidelines that apply equally to award and pay tickets.

http://www.aa.com/content/agency/Boo...e_240_80.jhtml

ANY change made by AA that qualifies for a schedule change is a basis for a refund/redeposit or adjustment to flights that you actually would like to take.

The magic words at times are "involuntary reroute".

Do a search on here and call AA with the flights that you want. This way it is much easier for the agent to say yes to you.

Good Luck

Thanks! I read the rule and see that it states a change in flight times of 90 minutes or greater permits a refund in the form of payment, but a change of less than 90 minutes permits only a refund to voucher. If it is an award ticket, does that mean a change of less than 90 minutes permits re-depositing the miles without a fee?

Yes, if that is your objective, just call AA and ask them nicely to just redeposit them for you. If the first agent won't call back