JDiver

Yep, and thanks for sharing; nice blog! Doesn't genuinely have much to do with discussion about pilot wages or labor, IMO.

sfoeuroflyer

I am confused. The current pilot actions do not admit of "well they are both to blame" explanation. There is one simple truth--best captured by the expression "even an old dog knows the difference between when he has been accidentally tripped over and when he has been deliberately kicked". These maintenance delays overwhelmingly are phony. The are purposeful actions intended to harm operations. And they really harm passengers. There is ZERO excuse for this behavior. It is no more no less than bullying by pilots who for too long have felt entitled. The airline is not about customers it is about them! Worse, to cite another dog expression: even small puppies know not to soil where they sleep. But that is what the pilots are doing.

I hate being held hostage by belligerent troublemakers who dishonor their profession.

So why again should we be respectful towards the pilots???

brp

I think it's a request to be respectful to one another. I agree that the pilots doing this (remember, it's only a fraction of them that are involved in the shenanigans) deserve just about as much much respect as you suggest.

Cheers.

HRDiva

And another side of the story: http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/am...oxic-stew.html

It is important to view events factually. Now you can see why pilots at AA are becoming less willing to deal with passengers and finding that they have to document their actions.

brp

I just read the first few posts and, if this was supposed to promote the pilots' viewpoint, it does just the opposite. The posts there make them seem as bad as, or worse than, they already look.

First, we all know that there are legitimate delays, and this is what the OP is referring to there. However, ignored are the obvious intentional-delay delays. Missing decals, burned out lightbulbs? Seriously?

The following posts have nothing to add, and just "screw 'em."

If this is really "another side" and represents the "facts" it makes the pilots look very bad, indeed. It's sad that that is presumably their forum to show their side, and even there they look very bad.

Cheers.

HRDiva

Well, since you are reading with what appears to be no interest in seeing both sides, I am not surprised by your immediate reaction. This pilot got the passengers to the gate early and still got verbally assaulted by someone who believes the hype. That's not ok, and not respectful. So, while those influenced by the misinformation think it's ok to verbally assault innocent professionals, others are surprised when there is negative responses from those getting assaulted?

brp

Just to be clear- I didn't say that, and I don't condone the actions of passengers who criticize the pilots doing a good job. So, yes, in this case the pilot was wronged by the passenger. No disagreement. I'm just commenting on the alternate view here. While this passenger was wrong, and is at fault, I think that this pilot (and the others posting in the thread) should realize that it is their co-workers who are doing more of the harm than Horton in the public perception. So, I do agree with your point in this one case, but the bigger picture is not swayed by the focus on these few cases, and the following responses in that thread certainly don't help.

Cheers.

elitetraveler

Is there anything in this link that hasn't been discussed? The pilots position is they aren't doing anything and are being unfairly blamed. I think we all understand that's their position.

I would suppose for pilots whose flights operate on time, have normal taxi times and maintenance can find something to fix when they are called, there are probably less reasons to 'document.'

As to dealing with pax and saying goodbye 'land and stand' it sounds like that has been a pilot choice for some time.

I feel sorry for the pilots who are doing their job professionally. They not only have to deal with some selfish colleagues in the cockpit, but they are going to be a target of passenger anger.

Stripy

This is not a dig or an attempt to be a wise-a## here but I'm genuinely interested in what your stake is in all of this. From your posts I'd say that you're firmly behind the pilots and it leads me to wonder if you have any connection to all this? I'm just looking for something that sheds light on why you (seemingly) defend them at most junctures. Thanks.

HRDiva

No, I don't expect many of you to understand because your minds are made up to assume the worst when you are really operating on misinformation provided by others.

Documentation by pilots is now taking place to prove both the actual maintenance problems and the lack of culpability of the pilots with regard to other operational failures (like weather). It's a reaction to the bad press that convinced people to the point of committing verbal assault. And it's necessary to avoid loss of license.

It's not just the pilots. You have 11,000 mechanics and ground people just sent WARN notices who don't feel motivated to run when a normal maintenance request is put in. And you have the normal dysfunction that went unchecked for years because pilots would step up and keep reminding them to do their job. That has stopped. So, it's not just the pilots.

But I don't see anyone here acknowledging that it's not just the pilots; that management has a big part in this operational failure. I don't see quotes from letters to AA management; rather only letters complaining about pilots--again just trying to ensure that both sides are actually voiced and heard respectfully.

HRDiva

I have said that I have no stake in the AA fight--<redacted> I am in HR and I deal in facts. I hate it when people jump to conclusions without knowing all the facts. Most passengers don't know the FAA rules and would, understandably be swayed by AA press about the pilots causing the problems and there being no culpability on the part of management.

And I am management; but I can recognize BAD management. That is AA!

elitetraveler

Actually it sounds like your mind is made up. I think there has been quite a bit of discussion on this board about AMR's lack of leadership, poor management and poor way of communicating with employees.

The thread you are siting quoted one pilot who is now documenting via camera and several other pilots who said he should check with the union first.

You are certainly reiterating the pilots talking points.

At the end of the day operating an airline takes teamwork. If the pilots aren't going to remind other team members - and just take a one call and wait approach - the system is more likely to fail. Do you think it is OK for pilots to take the "let other people do their jobs approach" if they see the system failing?

serfty

It's not the maintenance issues per se that are causing the abnormal delays/cancellations, it's the way these are being reported with that has changed.

See this recent article: Another American Airlines pilot explains why AA is having so many delays

scubadu

We all have biases. However, the bias of most posting in this forum are at least known; the vast majority of us are passengers/customers.

You might be taken more seriously if you at least disclose yours, and you clearly, unquestionably have a bias. At least have the intestinal fortitude to disclose yours.

Regards

HRDiva

Reply to elitetraveler post # 312: If you read the other pilot boards you will see hundreds of similar posts. I have also read the assertions on this board that they are greedy and a lot of other negative things.

The point the pilots are making is that they will now focus on doing their job and only their job. As we can now see, they did much more than that before. My opinion or your opinion about whether or not they should continue to step up and do the job of others means nothing. At the end of the day the fact that is even in question shows how bad the management is.