Spirit Charging for Carry-ons. Will AA Follow? (Speculation)
 

Spirit just announced that they will charge $30 per carry-on, $20 if you're in the "$9 fare club." It will be cheaper to check a bag than bring it on. Exempt from the charge will be one small (16x14x12") bag (ie laptop bag or purse). Other exceptions include: "umbrella, assistive devices, outer garments (coats, hats, wraps), camera, car seat/stroller, infant diaper bag, medicine, pet container, reading material for the flight, or food for immediate consumption."

Pure speculation... Will AA follow?

I can't imagine why not... they quickly got into the checked-bag fee game, and why miss out on this extra revenue-grab, especially if everyone else adopts it? Of course, if they exempt elites, I'm all for it! (1) More revenue for AA (assuming demand doesn't take a huge hit) and (2) less carry-ons in the cabins = faster turn times (I'm guessing it takes less time to load checked bags than it takes moron passengers to stow them in the overhead bins).

Just imagine the size of some people's jackets they'll be wearing stuffed with all kinds of things! I smell a business opportunity!

Maybe this? http://www.scottevest.com ;)

Since we are speculating. IMHO AA and the other legacies will watch to see if there is a customer backlash and can Spirit actually make this work from a logisitic stand point. If the answers are no and yes and I had to put a $2 bet at the window at Belmont Race Track, I would put $2 on either AA or US as a photo finish to start with UA as the wildcard.

So if you are at an airport after 8/1 that Spirit flys out of and you are bored waiting for your flight, go over to the Spirit gate and see the fireworks go off.

It is instructive to do a search on threads that have the word "speculation" in the thread title. If you pick threads that are old enough that you know the outcome, you can see whether the speculation involved generated more light than heat, and you can come up with a number of worthy words that could have easily been substituted for "speculation".

Nah. Spirit is an ultra low cost carrier that is introducing penny fares. I doubt the legacies will implement this, because it would anger too many people and they have too much to lose. Checked baggage, on the other hand, I hate to admit, does make sense - because it costs fuel and manpower to check, carry, and pick up the bags and check them under the plane/offload them. Spirit is a small airline that doesn't have a niche, unlike legacies. It won't happen. I'm positive. :)

I've done a few runs on Spirit. Never expected much from them. This, though, crosses a line...No more Spirit.

What costs the airline more, having the SLF truck its own carry-on, or check it and have the paid employees in the airports and airside handle baggage? Where would they delineate the limit between a hefty "personal item" and carryon luggage? How would they enforce it, how many employees would it take, and how much delay and ill-will would it create? How effectively are they managing carryon luggage now and how are pax perceiving it?

Not to mention AA is still differentiating itself significantly - as are most legacy carriers - from the LCCs, an particularly from the hoi polloi pay-for-everything a la Ryanair approach.

Why not add a $500 "avoid being beaten by thugs" fee, and exempt elites? It would be a great revenue producer for AA- all they'd need to do is hire some football players and give them lead pipes...

:rolleyes:

I expect this from NK- they are the FR of the US. I would think AA might want to be a bit better than that.

If the point is to anger your infrequent passengers so they have no reason to ever want to fly you, charging them for ANY luggage they need to bring with them is a great idea. Good luck with the idea that AA can stay in business solely based on elites, by the way.

Differentiating significantly by providing worse service/product than US LCC's WN/VX/B6?

Please explain your statement. What does AA do that is "significantly" different from the likes of WN and B6?

Your right AA differs significantly so much that a couple weeks back I started the thread of "why should non FFs choose AA in Y":rolleyes:. Most responses came back with sadness for the demise of AAs Y product domestically speaking.

From what I have read, if a person uses a kiosk/OLCI and does not check a bag the BP will say not paid for check bag. At the gate, anyone that has a BP with those words and has a bag will be boarded last and told to get their credit/debit card ready. No word yet on personal items such as a purse or backpack. So, maybe one of you can let us know in which concourses/terminals do both AA and Spirit operate out of so after August 1 to enterain ourselves we can go over to the Spirit gate before our flight and watch the war of the GAs and the Kettles.

This could be a boon for ScottEvest...pack the max size personal item and then load the vest to the max...The vest will pay for itself very quickly for a reasonably frequent flier.

Charge for checked luggage (B6 and WN do not), charge for change fees (WN doesn't), which clearly makes them different from FR and NK... oh, wait. :p

I'm going to say something that may mark me as a bomb-throwing radical here on FT: part of the reason the coach and non-elite experience sucks on AA (and many other pre-deregulation airlines) is because of the existence of elites and loyalty programs. You have to have something to distinguish them from hoi polloi, so the argument becomes a case of socking the infrequent/less frequent traveler first, even when it becomes a case of driving them into the arms of LCCs who treat non-status pax better (WN, B6, VX). (Consider that traveling 15,000 miles in the air a year's pretty substantial for most Americans, and not infrequent travel at all... but this level of travel will get you zip in terms of status). This is also exacerbated by the fact that loyalty programs are only loosely correlated to customer profit (the EXP/1K/etc. who gets their status via flying $99 transcons during DEQM, and so on), so the reality is that benefits get lavished on people who aren't particularly good profit centers.

So, if you have a 17" laptop, as I do, you can't carry it on? Just try and stop me.

Taking a page from the Ryanair playbook indeed.

Or for diaper bag sales. Or pet carriers. ;)

"Yes, that's correct sir, among my suit, undergarments and workout clothes is a pet mouse, which entitles me to carry on this cage full of mostly clothes without a fee."

This is the tail wagging the dog. As an example, checked bag fees were not instituted to differentiate between elites and kettles. Checked bag fees were introduced as a revenue grab, and elites were merely exempted to prevent their defection.

Beat me to it. I have heard stories of all sorts of ways to get around FR's low carry-on allowance. People would stuff underwear and socks in their pockets, wear two or three pairs of pants, and larger people have smaller people wear extra shirts. I have even heard of someone tucking in his shirt and then stuffing clothing down the front. The aviation version of the "beer belly" beverage holder for sneaking booze into public events.

Any move toward charging for carry-on will simply push more business toward WN and make the jobs of GAs and FAs much harder. I'm sure elites will be exempt but status does no good there is no airline around to use it.

Maybe place it inside a pizza box, as "food for immediate consumption" is allowed. ;)

I must admit that I read this specific post a little too quickly, and in doing so, I misread the final word to have an extra vowel between the "c" and the "t". The really funny thing is that the post would have meant approximately the same thing either way!

This make business sense to me. I've flown on 70+ different carriers around the world in the past few years, and it takes 3 times longer to fully board a plane in the U.S. than it does a similar sized plane overseas. That's because Americans carry so much cr*p on the plane with them, have to find space to cram it, haul it down the isle bashing people already seated as they go, etc. Spirit is probably trying to shave 10 minutes off the boarding time. Do that on 4 to 5 short flights per day, and you might be able to squeeze in an extra flight with the aircraft in your schedule, thus maximizing revenue.

But I have nice neighbors
 

Where is the enforcement point? At the gate....?? GAs taking money on the spot? All this borders on lunacy and I should know since I live there.

yeah...and if that's the case, just think how long the boarding process will be! :eek:

And what happens when Fred Ziffle tells the GA he does not have the $135 to pay for his, Doris, and Arnold's bags (and not enough money in his bank account for a debit card and no credit card with that much available credit, and don't laugh, there are far more people in that position than most of us realize). Like I say, will be lots of fun to watch a Spirit boarding after August 1.

:D (On a light note) I am picturing Indiana Jones in the 3rd movie ... "tickets please scene on the zeppelin" ...

As to the OP .... nothing makes things more efficient (esp. with bags) then making folks pay $$$ for it. It makes me glad as a frequent traveler to see the ultra cheap fare folks have to pay for it (with the cavaet that elites are free). Plus ... the TSA lines may get alot better since the non-experienced folks can actually get processed more effectively ... It would make my weekly "festivus" a little bit more bearable then dealing with the family of 4-6 that jams up the works (which happens alot ... [sigh ... so miss the clear lines])

Frankly, folks that are "complaining" about the fees should understand that the airlines is a business, and that their are considerable infrastructure costs to bear (oil/plane maintenance/FAA regs) ... and that their rights are for their travel rights ... not their baggage shipping service .... so given their propensity to be cheap ... be prepared for extra fees to counter balance the revenue arguement ....

I do understand about folks feeling screwed about the costs ... but this is the name of the game when you make judgements on items based purely on cost .... sometimes the cheapest fare isn't .... (and for those that jump to WN/B6 .... a surge of demand will make those airlines ticket prices go up considerably ... since I have seen that their prices are not much different then the mainline in alot of cities ....)

I'm sure AA management is excited to see if Spirit can pull it off, then hoping US or DL follow suit. If Spirit makes it work, money says within three years all the legacies are doing it.

Actually, Fred will just turn to Arnold, who will have dipped his snout into Sam Drucker's till for some petty cash before leaving for the airport. :D

A young lady that works at my company moonlights as a GA at Spirit in FLL. She has told me some horror stories about the pax reacting to fees - I'm sure that she's NOT looking forward to August.

The first thing I started wondering about when I read this was, what about someone who claims their carry-ons are all to fit under the seat, then places them in the overhead bin anyway? Is the FA to then collect the fee after boarding?

Probably a somewhat silly question, as I realize this is doubtless intended for rollaboards and the like, but the issue of who/what decides which bags require a fee and which are free, is a very real one. There can be quite a fine line. I have a travel bag which is clearly not a computer bag, briefcase, or tote - it's a real overnight bag, but can easily fit under a seat. I could see someone arguing that as it's not a "personal item," it would require the fee.

I'm beginning to think that the FAA (or whatever govt agency this falls under) needs to define what is included in a ticket price once and for all then airlines can do some positive marketing (as opposed to negative.. lets charge for this and that) by saying.. and we will throw in a, b, c rather than charge for a, b, c.. and by defining whats included in a ticket.. we all will know what at a minimum we will always expect to have when we purchase a ticket

Never even considered spirit and this sure will not get me any closer to it

at some point, there is the price point where shipping is cheaper and less of a hassle

finally, those WN commercials are going to need a few more guys to say bags & carryon's fly free

I'd love to check my rollaboard so I can board more quickly, but I'd rather save the $50 round-trip.

First, I don't think AA will follow suit in charging for carry-ons.

And I'm not sure Spirit's fleet is large enough to see any huge benefits from shaving a few minutes off boarding time, if that does actually happen. IMO, it's a revenue generator, pure and simple.

At some point, airlines will start weighing passengers. (Passenger + baggage) weight allowance.

They could require a special bag tag that must be visible on the bag when it is the bin. They could hand them out at check-in, at boarding, or let you print them at home (like some cruise lines let you print out your cabin bag tags). I guess jackets would have to be exempt.

I haven't been following all the discussion of this on the Spirit forum (I assume there's a Spirit forum and I assume there's discussion), but I assume they'll have a sizer and if the bag fits, then it's a personal item and if not then you have to pay. Though what makes sense to me is to charge the fee for any bag you want to put in the overhead and allow any bag that fits under the seat in front free. After all, your base ticket purchase should entitle you to use the space in and around your seat as you see fit, subject to FAA regulations. Your base ticket does not have to entitle you to space in the overheads.

My take is if Spirit can get away with less with no real backlash (other than lots of bad media) and oil continues its slow but steady upward price one of the legacies will go with this and then of course all the legacies will. That $20-$45 per bag will start to look like very attractive to airlines if oil hits over
$90, bad press be damn.

I wouldn't be surprised if the legacies eventually adopt this, although I'd expect AA to exempt Plat/ExPlat and anyone in F or C.

Meanwhile WN seems to be going nicely without charging to check a bag, and as a result they seem to have fewer problems with carry-on's... which helps them turn around aircraft faster.

Nickeling and diming your customers is not a sustainable business model. Spirit will probably be out of business in a few years. Have you ever check the cost of their flights? They are not cheap by any means. Case in point, R/T between BOS and LAX on Spirit is $581 vs $504 on AA. Tack on the charges for baggage, $50 R/T and you have to start questioning why even fly Spirit.

Er, they offer more than one class of service, lounges, intercontinental flights?

As for domestic coach, it never was what some crack it up to be; I was there when it was invented. (Shoot, even the so-called "First Class" cabins in the so-called old days were uncomfortable for most - better food, etc. but costs were kept artificially high and were rigidly controlled by the government, so meal and cabin services were the differentiating factors.

The people voted with their wallet again and again - they don't want service, or MRTC - they want cheap. Now airlines are unbundling what people thought was the flight experience, and the only question is how far the legacies will go. FR certainly leads the way - the unbundled a la carte stuff can cost much more than the actual so-called fare.

How far will AA go? It will depend on this current "I'll look at you whilst you look at me" method of airlines proceeding to change fares and service concepts, and what passengers will allow. The day when the DOT will step in like the CAB of old and regulate to a fine point is probably - over.

Fortunately, I can use the LCCs on some shorter routes, and use AA (or other legacies) for intercontinental and longer routes - as an FF I personally do prefer them to WN/VX/B6 with their better Y cabin (well, in many cases) and limitations. (Not to mention, have you noticed unbundling at WN? Fees for preferential boarding and early seating, etc. Guess what else is coming?)

eponymous_coward, I apologize - it looks like you were right and I was wrong. In an interview linked in this thread by miamigrad, Cory Garner, AA's Director of Merchandising Strategy, says:

(emphasis added)

!!!!!