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American's 787's may fly JFK-LHR

 
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Old Sep 2, 2010, 4:45 pm
  #1  
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American's 787's may fly JFK-LHR

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10846...bref=obnetwork
DALLAS (TheStreet) -- Among the routes where American(AMR) could fly its Boeing 787s, tentatively scheduled to begin arriving in 2014, is New York-London, CEO Gerard Arpey said.

In an interview, Arpey said that in general, "The plan is (to) retire 767s" when the 787s begin to arrive, as well as to grow internationally. The 767s fly trans-Atlantic, trans-continental and Latin American routes. Flying the 787 between New York Kennedy and London Heathrow airports is a possibility because the route is among the carrier's most important, he indicated, especially given recent regulatory approval of a trans-Atlantic joint venture between American, British Airways and Iberia.
Now the question is will they actually grow or shuffle the deck chairs around??? Though with the 767's I take it to mean the 767-200ER's, I could see them shifting some 767-300ER on to JFK-LAX/SFO and have some in 2 class configuration for Hawaii and Central America. It will be interesting to see what they end up flying in terms of new routes IF they actually happen.
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Old Sep 2, 2010, 5:11 pm
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Sounds like a waste to me. The range of the 787s makes them far too valuable for a high-demand high-revenue route like this one.

I could see 787s doing LAX-Europe, from everywhere to China, DFW-Australia, and MIA-Africa or Asia, though..
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Old Sep 2, 2010, 5:14 pm
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Originally Posted by CubsFanJohn
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10846...bref=obnetwork

Now the question is will they actually grow or shuffle the deck chairs around??? Though with the 767's I take it to mean the 767-200ER's, I could see them shifting some 767-300ER on to JFK-LAX/SFO and have some in 2 class configuration for Hawaii and Central America. It will be interesting to see what they end up flying in terms of new routes IF they actually happen.
I fly coach from LAX to JFK on AA. The extra leg room is nice. If they move to the 300s, I am done with AA.
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Old Sep 2, 2010, 5:26 pm
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I really hope AA has more ambitious plans with those 787's than to just use them for those NYC or possibly ORD to LHR shuttles, would be nice if followed CO's route and add some interesting destinations
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Old Sep 2, 2010, 5:32 pm
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American may fly 787s might be more accurate at this point in the game...
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Old Sep 2, 2010, 6:12 pm
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Originally Posted by CO FF
Sounds like a waste to me. The range of the 787s makes them far too valuable for a high-demand high-revenue route like this one.

I could see 787s doing LAX-Europe, from everywhere to China, DFW-Australia, and MIA-Africa or Asia, though..
The lighter plane should be cheaper to fly even on JFK-LHR and people will want to fly the new plane.
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Old Sep 2, 2010, 6:19 pm
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Originally Posted by millionmiler
... and people will want to fly the new plane.
Even if they have 9-wide seating in the back of the bus?
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Old Sep 2, 2010, 6:57 pm
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Originally Posted by CubsFanJohn
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10846...bref=obnetwork

Now the question is will they actually grow or shuffle the deck chairs around??? Though with the 767's I take it to mean the 767-200ER's, I could see them shifting some 767-300ER on to JFK-LAX/SFO and have some in 2 class configuration for Hawaii and Central America. It will be interesting to see what they end up flying in terms of new routes IF they actually happen.
AA (as of now) has 787-9's on order. A larger/long range 787 version. Maybe it is so much more efficient than a 777 on TATL it makes sense.
CO/UA will be using 787 to go for example from Houston to New Zealand. AA will use their long range planes to use at 40% of range to go New York to London and free up 777 to go to ?????.
I would have thought AA would want to use the 787-9 to go on new long routes ORD/DFW to ASIA (Hong Kong, Korea, China) or Australia.

The 767-300 that are freed up should be used for Trans Con and replace the 757 on some long range Internatioanl (Europe and South America).

ps - I forgot to add not one 787-9 has been built
What has been built so far are 787-8. Five -8 are flying. There are about 5 or more in various manufacturing states.
I was at the factory about two months ago and there were 5outside and five inside (with ANA Livery) on the manufacturing line. Do not know how many of the five outside were the ones that they are flight testing.

Last edited by zman; Sep 2, 2010 at 8:17 pm
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Old Sep 2, 2010, 7:02 pm
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Originally Posted by bernardd
Even if they have 9-wide seating in the back of the bus?
As opposed to the 9-wide seating in the back of the 777?
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Old Sep 2, 2010, 7:18 pm
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Iirc, AA has fully cancellable orders - they have put orders off two years due to production and flight issues, and can cancel all orders (42 + 58 purchase rights) and at any time. Imagining where they might go is a stretch just now, IMO. In what seems to be a political move,

Originally Posted by 10Q filed with SEC
American will not be obligated to purchase a 787-9 aircraft unless it gives Boeing notice confirming its election to do so at least 18 months prior to the scheduled delivery date for that aircraft. If American does not give that notice with respect to an aircraft, the aircraft will be no longer subject to the 787-9 purchase agreement. These confirmation rights may be exercised until May 1, 2013, provided that those rights will terminate earlier if American reaches a collective bargaining agreement with its pilot union that includes provisions enabling American to utilize the 787-9 to American’s satisfaction in the operations desired by American, or if American confirms its election to purchase any of the initial 42 787-9 aircraft. While there can be no assurances, American expects to have reached an agreement as described above with its pilots union prior to the first notification date. In either of those events, American would become obligated to purchase all of the initial 42 aircraft then subject to the purchase agreement. If neither of those events occur prior to May 1, 2013, then on that date American may elect to purchase all of the initial 42 aircraft then subject to the purchase agreement, and if it does not elect to do so, the purchase agreement will terminate in its entirety.
<link to full report>

I'm sure there are several contingency and deployment plans under development at AA, and that we will not be the first to hear what they are.

Originally Posted by zman
AA (as of now) has 787-9's on order. A larger/long range 787 version. Maybe it is so much more efficient than a 777 on TATL it makes sense.
CO/UA will be using 787 to go for example from Houston to New Zealand. AA will use their long range planes to use at 40% of range to go New York to London and free up 777 to go to ?????.
I would have thought AA would want to use the 787-9 to go long routes ORD/DFW to ASIA (Hong Kong, Korea, China) or Australia.

The 767-300 that are freed up should be used for Trans Con and replace the 757 on some long range Internatioanl (Europe and South America).
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Old Sep 2, 2010, 7:31 pm
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Originally Posted by GuysInCT
As opposed to the 9-wide seating in the back of the 777?
The fuselage width of the 787 is smaller - the external size is almost the same as the "much loved" A300's. It remains to be seen how tight it will be but some carriers are definitely going for 9-wide, just as some are using 10-wide on the 777.
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Old Sep 2, 2010, 7:39 pm
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Originally Posted by GuysInCT
As opposed to the 9-wide seating in the back of the 777?
The 777 cross section is actually slightly wider than the 787 cross section, so it will hardly be noticeable.

787 cross section: 226 inches (18ft 10in)
777 cross section: 231 inches (19ft 3in)

In the early development stages of the 787 Dreamliner (formerly known as the 7E7), Boeing originally intended to have an 8-absreast 2-4-2 economy configuration, but as always customers dictate the final configuration. This was to pitch the aircraft as a competitor to the A330 and promote the desirability of a spacious cabin. I don't know of any 787 customer that has announced their intention for 2-4-2 seating
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Old Sep 2, 2010, 8:01 pm
  #13  
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Originally Posted by jbdk
I fly coach from LAX to JFK on AA. The extra leg room is nice. If they move to the 300s, I am done with AA.
jbdk,
What I could see happening is making the JFK-LAX/SFO birds into 3 class maybe 10/30/150 or something like that. Though I really want to see ORD-HKG come up.
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Old Sep 2, 2010, 8:26 pm
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Originally Posted by AAerSTL
The 777 cross section is actually slightly wider than the 787 cross section, so it will hardly be noticeable.

787 cross section: 226 inches (18ft 10in)
777 cross section: 231 inches (19ft 3in)
I don't know where these figures came from but I found:

777 - overall width 6.19 M

787 - overall width 5.74 M

A300 series - overall width 5.64 M

which is about an 18" difference overall between the 787 & 777, and just a 4" difference overall between the A300 & 787. That doesn't account for packaging efficiency, but the comfort level on the 787 using 9-wide is far from proven. OK it's probably better than AF & EK using 10-wide on a 777, but BA had to re-configure their 10-wide 777's because the passengers disliked them so much. Time will tell, but the assertion that "people will want to fly the new plane" is unproven at present.
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Old Sep 2, 2010, 8:42 pm
  #15  
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AA's current CEO seems to like to say a lot of thing that the airline may or may not do....

Is he related to Ryanair's CEO? (at least he had the cojones to announce in front of a roomful of journalists that their proposed TATL business class will include free onboard _ _ _ _ jobs.

Let's see..... AA may consider installing showers on its 787.... AA may consider nonstop DFW-SYD service....
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