ANC

Ok so Ive done some figuring here on one way fares costs per square mile all for a tuesday April 22 for the purposes of this experiment. Im also using the miles on the AS site as I know they vary when posted to your account such as in the case of SEA-ANC they actually award you 1448. Also used all the lowest bargain fares to compare

ANC-SEA $321.70 1444 mi 22 cents per mile

SEA-PUW $99.50 248 mi 40 cents per mile

ANC-HNL $320.70 2777 mi 12 cents per mile

SEA-LAX $154.50 955 mi 16 cents per mile

SEA-BTM $171 475 mi 36 cents per mile!

Ok so my question is why is it a horizon plane that burns less fuel and flies less distance almost costs twice as much in some cases more than 3x as much as a 737!!! ????

Eastbay1K

For the same reason as dogs lick themselves. If people didn't pay those fares, they wouldn't charge them.

ANC

LOL!!! Just about spit my rootbeer all over the keyboard

jackal

As much as it doesn't seem fair to consumers, Eastbay is pretty much correct. AAG is a for-profit company and can do whatever they want, especially in markets with limited or no competition. (That isn't to say that they shouldn't try to be fair to protect their brand image and prevent negative PR...)*

However, there are some other (more legitimate) reasons to consider:

-A large portion of the costs of a flight are fixed (e.g. fuel burned during taxi/takeoff/climb, crew, ground staffing, maintenance costs, aircraft financing/leasing). The fuel burned during the relatively fuel-efficient cruise phase (whether 30 minutes or 3 hours) isn't as much of a factor as you'd think
-There are fewer people on a QX aircraft to spread the fixed costs out over
-Some of the smaller markets operated by QX may not have high load factors (I don't know this from experience, having never flown QX, but on the few regional carriers I've been on, I've rarely seen the flights go out 100% full), further driving up the cost per person

I'll bet you RASMguy could probably shed some light on this. Maybe you could PM him and get him to post to this thread (I'm sorta curious myself, too).

*Addendum to my first paragraph:

Even in the markets with little competition, you always have the choice to drive from those smaller cities served only by QX to a larger airport. There's often Amtrak, too--there was a thread recently about a gentleman who flew QX from SEA to YYV, IIRC, and was angry because he spent several hundred dollars and they delayed his luggage. I can't even see myself in that same situation, as I would have chosen to take Amtrak (either the Cascades service or the Thruway bus) for far less money. Personally, that's what I'd do, at least in my current financial stage of life--if I lived in PUW, I'd probably drive from PUW to GEG than pay PUW fares...though GEG's not exactly the cheapest place to fly out of, either. Actually, one of my big criteria for my future place of residence is proximity to both a major airport and rail travel to give myself the best options for travel.

(Hint to QX managers reading this: I know not everyone values cheap fares as much as I, but if you priced fares more reasonably, you might attract the segment of people like me who will drive a good distance to avoid the high fares. But I'm sure your analysts have things figured out so your current strategy is the most profitable one...)

ClassCAir

Well stated jackal. I think you are spot on. It's all called yield.

Look at the price per mile for a long-haul flight (like say London) and compare it to one of the short-hops. It's a huge difference! You pay much less per mile to London than to Pasco... much of this can be attributed to the reasons jackal stated.

beckoa

Nice to see PUW picked on

The scary thing is I think the overall cost of flying to PUW and several other Pacific NW QX destinations has decreased, (At least there was a temporary reduction last fall for a while).

And competition is key, as WN is flying the GEG-SEA route, so a roundtrip on AS is as cheap as $79 rt currently- Roundtrip! However, I do not have a car down here to take advantage of this deal, and am stuck flying to SEA from PUW, which has less reliable service, and smaller A/C w/ no chance of an UG. Sure there is a bus each way thats $20, but then I need to coordinate the schedules even more, and with any wx or a mech I might need to spend an extra night in GEG... its much more convenient to use PUW. And if one is able to purchase their flights correctly (like during PFD specials) they can durastically reduce this difference to zilch. I think last fall when I got my spring/summer travel, it was $393.70 ANC-PUW-ANC, and due to taxes or something was slightly higher to fly into GEG.

I don't like these weird schemes, but I do try to take advantage of the "better" prices when they do emerge...

Just woke up from a nap so I might have some more thoughts later

jackal

Yup, I knew that'd get you to post!

I figured you were car-less. Being my cheap self, I'd probably take the bus (though honestly, I don't think I could survive without a car, if only to satiate my endless desire for last-minute road trips on weekends, so I'd probably have a car), but yeah, with the PFD "specials" (I guess they are good for some itins), I guess it works out OK.

I'm glad AS is a healthy, profitable company, but it'd be nice to both have reasonable (not necessarily rock-bottom, but reasonable) airfares and happy employees (cf. the recent thread WRT pilots handing out leaflets) and still have AS make at least a small profit...

beckoa

Another one that is ridiculous, that I'm looking into this summer in Aug is ANC-ADQ. This short 251 mile journey is pricing out on AS as $335!

That's $.7492 a mile... I know there are higher ones out there, but one I was looking into for my family and I...

It might be cheaper to drive to HOM and take the ferry across... have not done the math yet but still...

And as for a car... sure you can go on a roadtrip... but to where??? There is nothing for miles around PUW... except maybe GEG, LWS & PSC. I even went to PDT last year w/ a friend for a scouting event. So there is stuff, but its mostly made of lentils, unless you want to drive over 4 hours... Then with gas, its almost cheaper to just fly to somewhere warm & fun like SFO... not to mention faster.

jackal

Oh, I don't know--if I lived in the Lower 48, the U.S. and Canada would be my oyster! From your neck of the woods, I'd consider anything in WA, OR and ID to be within easy reach--say, Boise, Reno, Spokane (I have family there), even a drive to Portland isn't that far to me (but then again, I regularly drive with my grandpa between Los Angeles and Missouri in the span of two days...hitting 1,000 miles per day and not getting tired of it!).

beckoa

On the risk of getting wayy.... off topic...

My "driving" trips down here (2006/2007) consisted of:

SEA-PUW (5 hours - Snoqualmie is highlight otherwise boring fields) 3X
PUW-SEA 2X
PUW-LWS (45 mins - "the canyon is highlight) 6Xish?
LWS-PUW 6Xish?
PUW-GEG 5ish (1.5 hours)
GEG-PUW 5ish
PUW-PSC 1X (2 hours)
PSC-PUW 1X
PUW-PDX (6 hours - a nice drive along the Columbia) 2X
PDX-PUW 2X
PUW-PDX-Sisters, OR 1X (mountains are ok... overnighted in White Salmon, WA - over 10 hours)
PUW- White Salmon - Sisters 1X (10ish hours)
Sisters - PUW 2X (8 hours)

So these are the trips I've thought of... that I've driven. Most were to attend various scouting events across the Pacific NW... and the same roads get boring fast... especially with fields of grain! (Its sad when the highlight is seeing a dustdevil!)

Flights however have been much more exciting though:

ANC-SEA-PUW lots
PUW-SEA-ANC lots

PUW-SEA lots
SEA-PUW lots

GEG-SEA-FAI-SEA-GEG (School trip)

PUW-LWS-SLC-LWS

PUW-LWS-SLC-PHX-SEA-PUW

GEG-SEA-MSP-MHT-MSP-GEG (MR)

GEG-PDX-BOS-PDX-GEG (MR)

PUW-SEA-SNA / LAX-SEA-PUW

PUW-SEA-LAX / SNA-SEA-ANC

PUW-LWS (MR)

PUW-SEA-LIH-SEA-PUW (X-MAS)

PUW-SEA-ANC-SEA-IAH-MIA-IAH-SEA-ANC-SEA-PUW (SB)

PSC-PDT-PDX-OAK-SEA-PSC (Prez Weekend)

Upcoming:

PUW-SEA-PDX-BOI-LWS-PUW

PUW-SEA-SAN-SEA-ANC

Forgot what my original point was now...

If the scenery is dynamic I can deal with the long days... went from COS to Bullhead City, AZ in a day back in 01' with my dad.... that was a crazy trip! (Cool since we got to see the sun set at the Grand Canyon)

When WSU was playing at DEN this past weekend, a couple of us contemplated driving there to see the game... but 2 problems... getting tickets to the game, and no one had a car! It would of been 16.5 hours but fun!

Westcoaster

QX is charging us $300 RT SEA-MFR this spring, 40% more than the identical trip last fall. They charge much less for SEA-RNO, around $100 less depending on the day. I don't get it; I guess it's competition. Next time we'll drive it to MFR and drop in on relatives along the way. Added bonus: In the car I can have Diet Coke whenever I want.

ANC

well when I get some more free time on my hands maybe I will analyze it even further using the seat capacities into the calculations. Im well aware there are less people to disperse the costs but it still seems like a large gap there even after thats calculated. 73G 124 seats (12 F) and a D4 has 74 seats, still simply with that its less than. Also consider the 738 has twice the amount of seats than a D4 then it should only cost twice as much not 3x as much. I suppose the F class people are also off setting costs for the coach fares which of course Horizon doesnt have

tonei

Ha, I wish I could find a ticket ANC-SEA for $321...even CO is pricing out at $450 for when I would need to use it.

ANC

for a one way? because there are even hot deals for $240

ANC

Never been on Horizon but been on American Eagle and whatever CO calls their regionals and there are less FA's. I would imagine its the same with Horizon? That would cut actual costs out even more