Alaska Air MAJOR ISSUE? No saver award space!
Jul 26, 2018, 11:32 am
#136
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: BART Platinum, AA Plat Pro
Posts: 1,158
Unless there is serious customer blow back, expect restricted access to continue. They are basically planning for zero growth next year and below inflation level cost increases which means cost cutting and nickel and diming people to try to make up for management's short comings. They seemed very happy with themselves in that they figured out that offering too much saver award space was costing them money and that closing this loophole helps them achieve their revenue/cost cutting goals.
Jul 26, 2018, 11:48 am
#139
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: LAX
Programs: AS MVPG, IHG Diamond Elite
Posts: 1,445
Hey, now they can advertise "with awards starting at only 5K miles!" (or whatever the new lower number is), even if they're rarely available and only on some of their shortest routes. I'm sure the 5k for a SEA-BLI redemption impacts the bottom line less than a 25K SEA - DCA redemption does.
Jul 26, 2018, 12:12 pm
#140
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
Posts: 5,848
Just looking at several transcon markets from California, I have found that the F cabins are often nearly empty more than 24 hours in advance in the middle of the peak summer travel season. I have to wonder if this new policy will come back to bite them as they lose market share and customers.
Last edited by sfozrhfco; Jul 26, 2018 at 12:24 pm
Jul 26, 2018, 12:25 pm
#141
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,391
It's absolutely insane right now. Up until this month, I could always get weekday direct flights between SFO and WAS (IAD and BWI always, sometimes DCA) for 12,500 miles. Now, since the miles devaluation, the minimum is $30k for Y. And that's on flights that are 40-50% empty, 48 hours out.
Long story short, AS miles are now worth 1/2 to 1/3 of what they were last month. HUGE devaluation.
to be clear, this cannot be attributed to full summer flights. The flights are no more full than in the winter or spring. It's just a massive upcharge.
Long story short, AS miles are now worth 1/2 to 1/3 of what they were last month. HUGE devaluation.
to be clear, this cannot be attributed to full summer flights. The flights are no more full than in the winter or spring. It's just a massive upcharge.
Unless there is serious customer blow back, expect restricted access to continue. They are basically planning for zero growth next year and below inflation level cost increases which means cost cutting and nickel and diming people to try to make up for management's short comings. They seemed very happy with themselves in that they figured out that offering too much saver award space was costing them money and that closing this loophole helps them achieve their revenue/cost cutting goals. Given that they have a very steep hill to climb not growing (which would help them absorb additional labor and other costs which are already forecast to go up) and maintaining profitability, look for less award space and basic economy coming in December or sooner if they can get the IT issues worked out sooner.
I can understand wanting to reduce saver award availability, but it doesn't help them if those seats just go out empty. Presumably they'll also be more aggressive in offering very low fares when necessary, with BE restrictions in place to help price discriminate and prevent higher WTP customers from taking advantage of said fares?
So far in this thread:
"OMG, can't get any seats EVER!"
"AS is evil!" (from usual suspects)
(attach some screenshots rebutting the original assertion)
"Oh, but what I meant was... (way way less hyperbolic case)"
Good times...
Jul 26, 2018, 12:36 pm
#142
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
Posts: 5,848
Did you actually look at availability? Obviously not. Can you get an award at a low level? Mostly yes but as has been mentioned above only because AA has been opening up space. Nearly every day on the AS non-stop it is 70,000 miles in F and 30,000 in Y while AA can be found for 25,000 in F. That is what the whole thread is about. Your post only proves that AA has released more award space while adding nothing to the topic at hand which is AS restricting awards on their own metal.
Jul 26, 2018, 12:39 pm
#143
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,391
Jul 26, 2018, 12:43 pm
#144
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,391
Expecting the next objection: yes, I know F has been clamped down on. I suspect too hard (although AS transcon F has NEVER been in huge supply from SEA/PDX, EWR is always a reasonably difficult get, for instance). SEA-LAX in F isn't exactly amazing revenue for AS (it's like $200-300ish as a P fare), if someone wants to spend 25k miles on it, sure, knock yourself out, AS is kind of being ridiculous there. (Though I would point out that as AS elite in W on their XXX-LAX/SFO-HKG CX F award is reasonably likely to get an upgrade).
I never expected this to be the state of affairs forever, though:
https://onemileatatime.boardingarea....award-tickets/
Quite frankly if you're giving away multiple seats on your premium product close in, which should in theory be your most expensive tickets (close in and best cabin), that's a screwup that is low hanging fruit for revenue management to fix at some point. At best AS is washing some mileage off the books (at like a penny or two per mile, so like $250-500 in disappearing funny money) instead of getting even $600 in cash for that.
But FT is all over that kind of stuff because, duh, FlyerTalk.
Last edited by eponymous_coward; Jul 26, 2018 at 1:06 pm
Jul 26, 2018, 5:20 pm
#145
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New York, NY
Programs: Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott
Posts: 241
This might also explain why awards are tight. I hope people grabbed these when they were around!
Alaska Airlines customers this spring got an unusual benefit. After merging the Alaska and Virgin America reservations system in April, the combined airline mistakenly opened its award inventory, offering 40 percent more availability at the lowest levels than a year ago. And customers, including American Airlines’ loyalists, who have access to free seats on Alaska, pounced on them.
It was enough to affect the carrier’s second quarter earnings, executives admitted Thursday on Alaska’s second quarter earnings call.
“We were way too open,” said Andrew Harrison, the company’s chief commericial officer. “We are about generosity but we have the inventory misaligned with the demand.”
It was enough to affect the carrier’s second quarter earnings, executives admitted Thursday on Alaska’s second quarter earnings call.
“We were way too open,” said Andrew Harrison, the company’s chief commericial officer. “We are about generosity but we have the inventory misaligned with the demand.”
Jul 26, 2018, 5:36 pm
#146
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BOS/ORH
Programs: AS 75K
Posts: 18,323
I do admit it was way too easy to find saver on VX, as soon as those flights were available for award booking. Like almost every flight was available. That was long before the April merging of the programs.
Jul 26, 2018, 5:58 pm
#147
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
Posts: 5,848
Exactly. This was well documented well over a year ago. Maybe they just noticed it--or perhaps it is just an excuse for their relatively poor performance.
Jul 27, 2018, 8:58 am
#149
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manhattan Beach, California
Programs: BMI Diamond Club Gold forever
Posts: 6,367
A couple of data recent points:
AS is far more likely to open transcon A bucket availability as departure nears (even during busy summer travel periods) than is AA to open U bucket availability on similar routes. Teo years in a row that I have used AS as the transcon to build an AA biz award to europe, utilizing AS PDX-SEA-JFK and finding space about two weeks out which is when AA starts to open US-EU biz space.
AS can be extremely generous on its own routes even for holidays. Second year in a row that I have gotten SEA-BZN for Christmas, this year only 5k per ticket. And it’s even better, i needed 8 tickets and Expert Flyer was showing W5 and As..com was showing 3 at 5k and wanted 7.5k if i bought all 5 in one transaction. Needless to say i bought 3 for 5k, went back and got two more and wow, they were only 5k. Then, guess what, another 3 also for 5k. So 8 people for 40k total when EF showed only 5 available. I guess AS was automatically refilling the W bucket each time I bought. But getting them all for 5k each, what a steal.
Also worth pointing out that you really have to repeatedly scour (or set EF alerts) as i find AS award inventory randomly comes and goes. There was no award space SEA-BZN in late December just a couple of days ago but then a boat load. AA is the same, you can either pay cash, winge about availability problems or do the work to find awards.
AS is far more likely to open transcon A bucket availability as departure nears (even during busy summer travel periods) than is AA to open U bucket availability on similar routes. Teo years in a row that I have used AS as the transcon to build an AA biz award to europe, utilizing AS PDX-SEA-JFK and finding space about two weeks out which is when AA starts to open US-EU biz space.
AS can be extremely generous on its own routes even for holidays. Second year in a row that I have gotten SEA-BZN for Christmas, this year only 5k per ticket. And it’s even better, i needed 8 tickets and Expert Flyer was showing W5 and As..com was showing 3 at 5k and wanted 7.5k if i bought all 5 in one transaction. Needless to say i bought 3 for 5k, went back and got two more and wow, they were only 5k. Then, guess what, another 3 also for 5k. So 8 people for 40k total when EF showed only 5 available. I guess AS was automatically refilling the W bucket each time I bought. But getting them all for 5k each, what a steal.
Also worth pointing out that you really have to repeatedly scour (or set EF alerts) as i find AS award inventory randomly comes and goes. There was no award space SEA-BZN in late December just a couple of days ago but then a boat load. AA is the same, you can either pay cash, winge about availability problems or do the work to find awards.
Jul 27, 2018, 9:12 pm
#150
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MIA
Programs: AA EXP, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 493
Eponymous blew up the Y debate with screenshots and the +6 explanation. I find plenty of SFO-WAS Y @ 12.5K as well.
However I think we are all agreed that the F award avail is just brutal combined with the recent increase. Understood now that they had too much availability out there and need to recoup. Hopefully they course correct back the other way and soon. Or at least make a pool available for MVP75s.
The paid F still makes no sense, I keep having to fly other carriers that are far cheaper and often 2-3x cheaper
I am sitting on way too many AS miles (650K) thinking this was the program I wanted to be in and burning miles elsewhere. I need to start burning these AS miles and fast. And we're all 4 months away from figuring out what to do in 2019 - it may no longer be AS when you look at what you earn and how it can be redeemed.
However I think we are all agreed that the F award avail is just brutal combined with the recent increase. Understood now that they had too much availability out there and need to recoup. Hopefully they course correct back the other way and soon. Or at least make a pool available for MVP75s.
The paid F still makes no sense, I keep having to fly other carriers that are far cheaper and often 2-3x cheaper
I am sitting on way too many AS miles (650K) thinking this was the program I wanted to be in and burning miles elsewhere. I need to start burning these AS miles and fast. And we're all 4 months away from figuring out what to do in 2019 - it may no longer be AS when you look at what you earn and how it can be redeemed.