Just as a data point, DL regular here. I am perfectly happy with status quo and fearful that DL's over-aggressiveness might end an otherwise reasonable partnership with AS. The worst case possibility for SEA-based DL crowd would be if DL goes hard down this road, fails and backs out after having ruined the AS partnership.
Originally Posted by eponymous_coward
(Post 21534673)
That's a lot of lift ...
I think there's a good chance the AS-DL partnership disappears within the next few years- once DL has all the feed they need at SEA, why bother? I also think DL is trying to do a "merge or die" on AS. |
Gates?
Does DL have enough gates to really grow service at SEA? They occasionally overflow to A and B already.
Seems like DL would still need AS for feed at SEA beyond the few cities DL operates - all the QX cities, for example. |
Strategically Makes Sense
The DL expansion at SEA makes sense from a strategic point of view for DL if they want to create a hub at SEA - and have one of two goals. To gradually shrink AS and turn them into more of a feeder operation a la all the RJ partners. Or, more likely, if DL would really like to acquire AS but wants to drive down the price. In order to drive down the price of the acquisition, they need to get the stock price lower, and the way to do that is to hurt AS profitability. If that's DL's real goal, then they will beef up ANC service, maybe more Hawaii flying, maybe some more Mexico out of LAX... Things that drive down yield for AS. If you cut AS profit in half, then you can buy it for a small premium to the shrunk market cap.
It's really not the way you would treat a partner. VX could also be a target, but the benefits of harming VX would seem to accrue just as much to UA and AA, and perhaps even more so since they are relatively larger at LAX and SFO. It does seem targeted at AS. |
The HI market isn't the West Coast micro-haul market. HI is largely a down-scale leisure market with price-slashing to compete. It will eventually revert to packed aircraft on discount carriers.
West Coast micro-haul is aimed at business travelers and either the fares stay high or the route is abandoned. This may be great for the SEA-based AS crowd for the moment, but if it suceeds, AS will be out there with Braniff. |
That is exactly what I have heartburn over. Plus this strategy, assuming it was the intent, would take forever and cause collateral and financial damage along the way
Originally Posted by seacarl
(Post 21541272)
The DL expansion ... acquire AS but wants to drive down the price. In order to drive down the price of the acquisition, they need to get the stock price lower, and the way to do that is to hurt AS profitability. If that's DL's real goal, then they will beef up ANC service, maybe more Hawaii flying, maybe some more Mexico out of LAX... Things that drive down yield for AS. If you cut AS profit in half, then you can buy it for a small premium to the shrunk market cap.
It's really not the way you would treat a partner. VX could also be a target, but the benefits of harming VX would seem to accrue just as much to UA and AA, and perhaps even more so since they are relatively larger at LAX and SFO. It does seem targeted at AS. |
And DL adds weekly Saturday SEA-JAC service for the winter on the CR7.
It just keeps rolling in. |
I'd like to see AS codeshare on DL's West Coast flights.
Originally Posted by golfingboy
(Post 21545103)
And DL adds weekly Saturday SEA-JAC service for the winter on the CR7.
It just keeps rolling in. DL has been investing a lot of money in SEA lately and has the ability to change capacity relatively easy. For instance, DL will fly SEA-SLC with anything from CR7s to 757-300s and sometimes even 767s. I've benefited a lot from the AS/DL partnership and hope that it will continue. Having AA and DL as partners gives one extra options in case AS doesn't serve that city or only offers limited flights. The occasional upgrades on DL are also nice. In many respects, DL already operates as if AS is a DL connection carrier or a close partner such as AF/KLM, selling tickets on AS flights, providing ground handling for AS in many cities, and considering AS flights to be DL flights during IROPS or VDB rebooking. |
Dear Delta, please add PHX-SEA flights. It would help me greatly in the coming months.
Originally Posted by Tide_from_PAE
(Post 21545229)
I've benefited a lot from the AS/DL partnership and hope that it will continue. |
Originally Posted by seacarl
(Post 21541272)
To gradually shrink AS and turn them into more of a feeder operation a la all the RJ partners. Or, more likely, if DL would really like to acquire AS but wants to drive down the price. In order to drive down the price of the acquisition, they need to get the stock price lower, and the way to do that is to hurt AS profitability.
If DL adds SEA services, not with the goal of increasing profits but of driving down its acquisition cost of Alaska shares, it is a long, grinding process that leads to disgruntled AS work groups. Delta's only major unionized work group today is the pilots, who were part of the pre-offer discussions and the acquisition offer contingent upon pilot commitments. Other unionized work groups for NW compelled elections under applicable federal law. Some elections were close but Delta prevailed in all. Acquisition of unhappy AS employees could, with residual legacy-NW union empathy, lead to new elections and widespread union representation at Delta. (I respect employee rights to chose union representation under U.S. law but I expect DL management is happier without collective bargaining.) If DL wants to buy AS it will need to show the love, not set up a shotgun wedding. |
Assuming they anticipate sufficient demand, could simply be a move to keep WN out of the market - in the best interest of BOTH AS and DL.
|
This article was posted in the DL forum. I suggest everyone read it. It's very interesting. Apparently DL and AS are "fierce competitors" and 1/3 of DL intl pax come from AS flights.
It's gonna be fun next summer. As Southwest says, "Grab your bag. It's on." :D
Originally Posted by diver858
(Post 21546741)
Assuming they anticipate sufficient demand, could simply be a move to keep WN out of the market - in the best interest of BOTH AS and DL.
|
DL cut SFO - NRT as of April 2014.
The timing of some of these flights make to sense for a NRT feeder. |
Originally Posted by 3Cforme
(Post 21546699)
Sorry, but that view has all the logic of 'We needed to destroy the town to save it.'
If DL adds SEA services, not with the goal of increasing profits but of driving down its acquisition cost of Alaska shares, it is a long, grinding process that leads to disgruntled AS work groups. Delta's only major unionized work group today is the pilots, who were part of the pre-offer discussions and the acquisition offer contingent upon pilot commitments. Other unionized work groups for NW compelled elections under applicable federal law. Some elections were close but Delta prevailed in all. Acquisition of unhappy AS employees could, with residual legacy-NW union empathy, lead to new elections and widespread union representation at Delta. (I respect employee rights to chose union representation under U.S. law but I expect DL management is happier without collective bargaining.) If DL wants to buy AS it will need to show the love, not set up a shotgun wedding. ALK isn't affordable for DL at current market cap. If DL wants to acquire the company, or acquire the SEA hub, either way it needs to cause some damage to ALK. That's the path they seem to be on. |
Originally Posted by seacarl
(Post 21549350)
The work groups really aren't directly affected by the stock market value.
The majority of AS employees have ALK stock as part of their 401(k) contribution from the company, so I'd say AS employees are very much affected by changes in ALK share valuation. |
Originally Posted by Snowdevil
(Post 21549438)
Wrong.
The majority of AS employees have ALK stock as part of their 401(k) contribution from the company, so I'd say AS employees are very much affected by changes in ALK share valuation. On the other hand, if the stock is down 50%, and DL comes in and offers to buy the company at a 20% premium, not sure DL is hurt by the tactics. May sound brutal, but seems to fit the facts. DL may not really care about the specific outcome, whether AS shrinks and becomes more of a feeder or whether they buy them, but they seem to have decided to make SEA an international hub and compete on the prime routes out of SEA. AS doesn't seem to have a lot of options to respond |
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