AS desperately needs E+ or the equivalent
 

Okay, at least I desperately need E+...

I'm UA 1K and AS MVPG. For paid domestic travel, I'm required to book in coach.

On UA, I hope for F, which I'd say I get about 55-65 percent of the time. If I don't get F, then I take an exit row seat, and that happens about 20-30 percent of the time. If neither of those, then I go into E+. I literally can't remember the last time I was in a non-F, non-exit row, non-E+ seat on UA.

On AS, I hope for F, which I'd say I get about 30-40 percent of the time, with transcons lower than West Coast flights. If I don't get F, the only other decent option is exit row seating, and I'd say that happens maybe 10-20 percent of the time -- AS exit rows fill up early. If I don't make F or exit row, then it's into a regular coach seat, and that happens on probably half of my flights or close to it.

Now, this is a big deal to me because I'm 6'2". Most of my flying is to the East Coast. Five hours in 32" pitch is not a fun thing when you're as tall as I am. In fact, it's miserable.

I've been telling myself this has been happening because I have to make many of my reservations at the last minute. But I just reserved SEA-DCA-SEA flights two weeks out and not only is F booked, not only are the exit rows taken, but as of now I'm in middle seats in both directions.

At this point I'm kicking myself. With DEQMs, I'm at 81K miles this year on UA, and given the international travel I have planned, 1K is automatic. So I figured I'd put some mileage in on AS to make sure I maintain MVPG this year. But for what? So I can sit in E- some more? So I can sit in middle seats some more?

Don't get me wrong here. AS is a solidly run airline with great employees, most of whom clearly love working there and let it show. I enjoy my interactions with them. And I'm proud of my hometown airline. But all of that falls by the wayside if I'm spending five hours in an E- middle seat -- or any E- seat, for that matter, since I won't be able to open my computer. UA may have bad management and unhappy employees, but I can shut that all out when I'm sitting in F or E+. E+ keeps me coming back to UA again and again.

So, AS, please think about this. I was MVPG last year. I'll probably be MVPG again this year -- I'll only need three more RTs to the East Coast in the next six months. But at some point I'll start asking myself why I'm doing this. Much more of this E- stuff and I'll avoid AS unless I'm positive I'm going to be upgraded. And that means I'll drop down to MVP. And then I'll never get upgraded on a transcon again, so I'll pretty much be done with AS except for the occasional flight down to SFO or LAX.

Many, many UA fliers will tell you that they stick with UA, despite the problems, on sole account of E+. And it's not just UA. B6 A320s have a minimum 34" pitch, and one can buy 38" pitch in the first few rows for an add-on fee. I'd be okay with that, even as an elite. You can tap me for another $20-30 out of my pocket and I'll happily pay it. Look! A new revenue opportunity for you.

Please? I'm asking nicely. :-)

I really don't think this is going to happen on AS, and it is a calculated risk that some folks will just fly UA for that reason. UA seating is more comfortable, both in F and in the E+ part of the cabin. Given the AS load factors, average aircraft size, etc., I am not optimistic that they are going to remove seats from any aircraft. The only reason I could see them do so would be to remove 7 seats from the 738 so they could fire some flight attendants, but I'm sure they've crunched those numbers, too.

UA treats non-elites like [expletive deleted]- there's a reason why non-E+ seats on UA are called "E-" (the pitch in that section is usually 31", not 32"). As a 6' 3" MVPG (who has been known to hop standby flights and get 30D), I feel for you, but I'm not a big fan of degrading the coach experience for the majority of passengers so elites can be more comfy when they are in coach. One might also note UA scores pretty low on those JD Power customer satisfaction surveys, even with all that E+.

B6 is using Airbii sans any F, which is why they can get away with wider seats AND better pitch. To be honest, I sort of wonder if that is the wave of the future as F slowly gets whittled down- maybe at some point, airlines will just charge for more legroom, charge for drinks, food, IFE and WiFi, and be done with it.

Honestly, if I loved UA's product so much, I would fly UA. It may not make sense for the OP to continue with AS. I'm sorry but an airline cannot be all things to all people (as hard as AS may try).

Quick question for the OP...

Have you tried rerouting thru LAX at all on your DCA trips? AS 5&6 typically have better upgrade odds, plus you might find better seating, for sometimes even cheaper then AS 1,2,3&4?

Otherwise... those last minute purchases do bite... (I typically travel for pleasure, and will purchase my tickets 3,6,9+ months out and get good seating options) and not sure that AS has a viable option for you.

Oh, and you get some extra EQM's on the extra leg, plus an almost guaranteed upgrade SEA-LAX :cool: (and if you time it right, In-N-Out for lunch on the return near LAX :p)

I don't wish to demean the OP's concern. I know, first hand, how hard it can be sitting in a middle seat on a transcon. It can be very uncomfortable, especially if the persons on either or both sides are of larger stature. I also understand that E+ is a great tool for your frequent flyer program. That said, I have to wonder whether E+ is a money maker for UA or not. UA is probably in the worst financial shape of any domestic U.S. airline. I get that the revenue stream is but one of many, MANY problems at a very poorly run airline but I wonder if UA would be making more money if they ditched the E+ product and added more seats to their Y cabin. I suppose some might say that the only thing keeping UA alive are their loyal travelers but I can't help but wonder whether E+ helps or hurts UA's bottom line. It certainly is great for their frequent flyers, no doubt. There are some folks that will fly UA simply because of that but more and more people choose airlines based on their own bottom line and the convenience of their schedules. Case in point, the OP chose a middle seat on Alaska rather than taking a nonstop on UA to IAD in E+.

1. I didn't think I'd get a middle seat. Long story, but I can't make reservations through the AS site -- I have to go through my corporate site and it's difficult to know exactly what the status of the flight is. I was hopeful there would be F seats available, but no. Also, my corporate site places a needless SSR into my reservations that causes exit row to appear unavailable to me unless I call AS myself.

2. I've been choosing UA much more than AS this year -- I'm at 61K BIS miles on UA, about 18K BIS miles on AS. And that includes lots of travel to MCO where it would be much faster to go AS.

3. I'd argue that the only two things UA is doing really well right now are E+ and the new F/C international cabins (which are far and away the best of any USA carrier). Leaving aside F/C and focusing domestically for a moment, if they got rid of E+, they'd have zero differentiation. I talk to other 1Ks on a regular basis who say that the availability of upgrades and E+ as a fallback is what keeps them coming back.

After the fact, I did notice that AS 5 and AS 6 are much easier to upgrade. However, if I have to choose between easy upgrade on a UA SEA-IAD nonstop and easy upgrade on an AS SEA-DCA nonstop, I'm picking UA. That's four hours of my life I'm not going to get back if I go AS.

As an aside, that's two hamburger-reference-containing entries from you. Clearly we need to get you to Seattle for some world-class burger action.

6'2"+ MVPGs of the world, unite!

You said, "UA scores pretty low on those JD Power customer satisfaction surveys, even with all that E+." It would make just as much sense for me to say, "B6 scores pretty high on those JD Power customer satisfaction surveys. It must be because of the 34" and 38" pitch." In truth, I'd argue that...

...UA probably is liked for E+ by the elites, disdained for its service by all,
...AS is liked for its service, not its legroom, and
...B6 is liked for both (note that I'm going on hearsay, as I've never flown B6).

Honestly, domestically, I don't give a hoot about the amenities of F beyond leg room and recline. I typically don't drink in flight. The meals aren't good. AS doesn't have power ports and UA's only work maybe a third of the time at most. I just want seat width (so I can type without elbowing the person next to me and vice-versa) and pitch (so I can open up my laptop screen). If there's enough pitch that I don't feel like a jerk for reclining a little, so much the better. So I think I'm agreeing with you -- maybe we move away from F and towards something more like Y and Premium Y. (I haven't flown any true Premium Y offerings, but from what I've seen, they look like just like what I want domestically.)

I admire AS tremendously for how they run their airline -- so much so that I just bought some of their stock for my IRA. And I want my hometown airline to prosper! But, for me personally, I can't and won't keep flying them if I'm only upgraded a third of the time and in E- most of the rest.

As a UA elite and DL elite, I would rather fly DL even without E+. Frankly, UA's reliability for me hasn't been stellar and between the occasional upgrade and exit row seating, I don't often sit in a standard pitch row.

I don't think E+ is a significant moneymaker or other airlines would have introduced something to compete. AA tried for awhile with their "More Room Throughout Coach" product awhile back where every row had more pitch but after some financial analysis they put the seats back in because they weren't getting a revenue premium for it. And UA just borrowed money at 17 percent interest, which tells me that they're not getting much if any extra revenue from E+.

http://www.reuters.com/article/marke...0090629?rpc=44

I don't see how MRTC is a valid example. What that experiment proved was that AA wasn't able to gain additional business accounting from MRTC to offset the losses in revenue. That's a very different thing from E+.

As for other airlines introducing something similar, what about B6?

I don't doubt that their E+ is very attractive to their frequent flyers. I just wonder whether it actually does anything for their bottom line. So far, other airlines have tried to offer more room in coach in various cabin layouts. It hasn't worked for any airline, and UA seem to be heading down the same path that Pan Am, Eastern and TWA all went. Despite it's attractiveness to the United Mileage Plus members, it doesn't seem to be making a difference to their bottom line. My thought is that Alaska could use valuable real estate on their aircraft to offer this product but it hasn't seemed to make money for those airlines that have offered it in the past on their domestic product.

I am a 1P on United. Not a 1K, but still a good elite. E+ is United's first class cabin. Alaska is way more liberal on first class upgrades than United. And the service is way better. So that leaves UA elites to settle in on E+.

I agree with Eastbay1K that Alaska isn't likely to remove seats. Bottom line is the bottom line. I don't pay for E+ nor did before I made elite. So if Alaska takes seats out, the remaining seats have to work that much harder. Great if that works, but I don't believe it will and it is a big risk.

Secondly, the 737-800 has a pitch of 32" (source: Seatguru.com). But Alaska has a trimmer seat, which means 1-2" more knee room. United has thick seats on the 757s and so that 36" doesn't get any better. The Alaska 737 is a comfortable plane. Much better than the 757 in E- on United or Delta. Even the Southwest 737s are a comfortable plane. I have found myself on Southwest much more these days.

JetBlue took seats out because the A320 is not a transcon plane and they had to fly empty seats due to fuel loads. Then they realized they could fire a flight attendant and take the seats out that they were flying around empty. They then did the customer friendly thing by spreading the seats out. If they could fly 162 seats, they would.

Remember, at United, if the flight attendant smiles at you, you have reached, "North of Expected." At Alaska and Horizon, a smile is usually just a regular day at work.

I think this is an odd, and unrealistic, request.

However, in your shoes I can completely understand it.

When my UA status ends after this year, so does my flying on UA. They've declined in so many other ways, and the prospect of flying with them in E- is unimaginable.

If you're saying that you'd rather sit in AS Y than UA E+, clearly you have a different body type than mine. I envy you.

If you're saying that AS Y is better than UA E-, I can't say, as I can't remember the last time I sat in E-, but I'll take your word for it. However, that wasn't my point.

As for AS being way more liberal with F upgrades, that's certainly not my experience. I'm a 1K and an MVPG, and most of my flying is transcon, and I make most of my domestic reservations 1-3 weeks before departure. Have I been upgraded on AS transcons? Yes, but rarely. UA? A majority of the time. My impression is that AS is great for upgrades if you're going up and down the coast, not so much when you're headed cross-country. In my situation, with my status, UA is a far more reliable F upgrade.

As for the attitude of the employees, I hope I've made it clear in my posts above how much I prefer AS in this regard, so no argument there.