It's time for E+ (or the equivalent) on AS
 

I recently flew yet another non-upgraded AS transcon, but even having made my reservations three or four weeks out, there were no non-middle exit row seats left, so I spent five and a half hours unable to even think about opening up my (tiny) laptop. (I couldn't have used it in an exit row middle seat because there wouldn't have been room for my elbows to allow me to type.)

Now I see that DL has announced they're expanding Economy Comfort fleet-wide on their mainline aircraft. That brings the list of airlines with such a section to:

DL: Economy Comfort
UA: Economy Plus
B6: Even More Space
VX: Main Cabin Select

Can we officially call this a trend now? Multiple airlines have run the numbers and concluded it's a net positive to their business to offer a section in the front of coach with more leg room -- and in the case of DL and UA, to offer seats in this section as a benefit to certain levels of elite travelers, while selling upgrades to others. This is my number one request for AS. In fact, it's my number one, two, and three requests, all rolled together.

As convenient as you are, AS, at some point I'm going to tire of never being upgraded on transcons (oh, those tantalizing Gold certs that never can be used on the flights for which you really want them), and of having only eight seats that aren't middle and that have leg room fit for a human being (especially one of my height), and I'll give up on you. I won't go away entirely; Mrs Seaflyguy and I will use our AS Visa companion fares for two trips a year, and I'll occasionally fly you up and down the coast. But my Gold days will be a thing of the past. If, though, you install a more leg room program like your competitors at DL, UA, B6, and VX, well, I'll make sure I keep my Gold status for years and years to come. And I presume I'm not the only one.

By the way, if you'd like an idea for how to have your cake and eat it, too, how about investigating the mesh seats that Lufthansa is installing? If you installed them and kept the pitch where it is now, you'd get the equivalent of 34" throughout coach. If you reduced pitch behind the exit rows to the equivalent of 32" (what it is today), you could increase the pitch forward of the exit rows to the equivalent of 37". Or something like that.

This is eloquently stated and thanks for posting. With the fall Gold lunches coming up, I think this topic qualifies as worthwhile of being asked about.

When you stop thinking of AS as a legacy airline and start thinking of them as just Southwest with a First Class, two things will happen:

1) All of their miserly decisions will start making much more sense.
2) You'll be able to predict with stunning accuracy what they will do in the future.

Simply ask yourself: when will WN add a premium economy section? If the answer is never, then you'll have a pretty good idea of when AS will do so.

WN but with First Class, clubs, elite benefits, buy-on-board meals, service to Hawai'i, international service, reserved seating, a regional carrier, mileage partners, and reciprocal benefits on DL? I'd say they look much more like a legacy airline and much less like WN.

Thanks! I'd ask myself, but I think I'm on my third year as a Gold and I have yet to be invited to a lunch. Someone else will have to ask for me...

You might want to head over to the LH forum to get some frequent traveler opinions of the NEK. (To sum up: they complain about it more than people complain about AS F seats and meals.)

I might also point out that UA E- is 31"- that's where they get the space for E+- and AS's pitch matches WN's (32"), and is better than CO/DL standard pitch in a lot of their planes (30-31"). AS also isn't a particularly elite-heavy airline, so the impetus for this would likely have to be "squish the cattle".

its the trend for airlines needing to entice people to use their airline and needing to nickel and dime them to stay afloat

I appreciate the facts you're laying out here, but I'm not sure they're relevant to my argument. AS may match or beat E-, but it's a rare day that a UA elite sits in E-. I've been a 1K for a few years now and I honestly can't remember the last time it happened to me. Maybe once when I switched flights at the last minute during the holidays. AS may match or beat CO and DL's standard pitch, but CO is installing E+ and DL is installing EC. So it'll be a rare day that a UA/CO or DL elite is sitting in a tight pitch seat. As for WN, I think we all understand that the concept of "elite benefits" is foreign to them. More power to them, but not my kind of airline.

My point is that four of AS' competitors -- DL, UA/CO, B6, and VX -- have or will soon have more leg room available, either free as an elite benefit or as a buy-up. As a 1K and MVPG based in SEA, I find myself taking less and less transcons on AS these days, because now I know that I can fly nonstop to EWR and IAD and have an excellent chance of being upgraded to F, with exit rows and then E+ as fallbacks. I'm only going to requalify MVPG this year because of a couple of trips to LIH and KOA, and I'm going to have to do my first MR ever, though a very short one. Next year, I don't know.

Do you have data to support this? The last time I flew BOS-SEA, having booked my flight three weeks in advance, I was 21st on the upgrade list.

I assume you're not drawing a contrast between AS and others, right? I mean, AS does its fair share of nickel and diming. And I'm okay with an airline doing that to me if I'm non-elite -- it's just the facts of life.

My argument is more that UA generally does nice things for their elites by completely hosing non-elites.

• E-
• $150 change fees
• $25 checked luggage fees
• day of flight change fees
• any other excuse they can to hose the peons

AS generally tries to do less of that, historically. Their fees are less, their coach has more pitch, and so on.

It's not, really. The WN Companion Pass is really a very nice elite benefit. What they don't do is have an F cabin.

AS's MVPG tier is around 30-35K (as quoted in some MVPG lunches). That's pretty small compared to other airlines.

You also need to consider that the largest place where AS has expanded their network is Hawaii, a leisure destination that won't generate a lot of elites (something that confirms this; some of the easiest upgrades in UA's system are their West Coast-Hawaii routes).

What I also mean to argue is AS is not really the same as DL or UA. What works for one might not for the other. That being said, it would be an excellent topic to bring up at the next lunch.

Adding to that the OP also mentioned DL which goes so far as to hose their gold elites as well with change fees and day of flight fees. At least DL offers free bags with their AMEX, something some others dont do

AS has a checked baggage fee that they waive for elites. They have a change fee and a same-day confirmed change fee that they waive for elites. They charge for meals on board. They charge for entertainment. If you're trying to point out a huge gap between AS and UA et. al, I'm not seeing it. Maybe there's a slight difference, but that's about it. In other words, if UA is "hosing its non-elites" by charging change fees, charging for luggage, charging for other things, how is AS not doing the same?

On this I stand corrected. I hadn't looked at RR for quite a while. I wouldn't fly WN, but for the right kind of person, RR looks good. Well done, WN.

The point isn't the absolute number of elites, but rather the percentage. When UA pre-boards its GSes, 1Ks, and F, the lines look about as long to me as when AS pre-boards its 75Ks, MVPGs, and F.

Anyway, I think we're somewhat in the weeds here.

My point is that while no two airlines are alike, airlines generally face similar pressures. What works for one might not for another, but virtually all major US airlines have roughly similar add collect fees and policies, baggage fees, policies on pre-selecting exit rows, on-board food costs, and so on. There's a reason, and that's because they all operate in the same competitive environment and watch each other closely to see what works and what doesn't. Two of the majors (UA/CO and now DL) and two others (B6 and VX) have decided that more leg room (as an elite benefit and/or upsell) is a net positive for them... and note that the new UA/CO's decision to retain and expand E+ was approved by the former CEO of CO and based on UA's historical program data. So clearly it works for at least some airlines. Further, my guess would be that in terms of elite populations, B6 might not be all that far off AS, and they've repeatedly said that EMS is a net positive for them. So I'd want to know why it wouldn't work for AS.

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AS already lost out on one of my flights this year to VX MCS where the VX fare was similar to the AS Y fare when I was booking. It was a "never going to get an UG" flight. If AS would have given me more legroom, I'd probably have taken AS.

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AS already lost out on one of my flights this year to VX MCS where the VX fare was similar to the AS Y fare when I was booking. It was a "never going to get an UG" flight. If AS would have given me more legroom, I'd probably have taken AS.

Not quite right. Same Day Confirmed and Standby are free for DL Gold. Domestic EC will be free for Gold at time of booking; intercontinental EC is discounted 50%.