AF B787-900 Dreamliner configuration revealed
 

Some details have leaked today about the AF Dreamliners 789 config : no P, 30J in 1-2-1 config (so at least they will not put the NEV4 on those new birds :rolleyes:), 21W and 225Y. Total 276 seats
http://tylerbirth.boardingarea.com/e...-9-air-france/

The J config looks identical to KL 787.
SO probably Cirrus too.

When is the first delivery and how many 787 are ordered?

Thanks AF for caring for your Y passengers :mad:


Brunos, I heard the 1st 787 will enter the fleet next November

Zodiac Aerospace is struggling to deliver seats right now, so it might be a similar configuration with a different seat manufacturer.

A new hell-liner for Y pax.
9 abreast and 31'' it's going to be a joy to fly on those...

Unfortunately 9 abreast and 31 seems the norm on 787.

Absolutely. To my knowledge, the only exception are JL but everyone else seems to be going for 3x3x3

Boeing has been able to squeeze one more seat abreast on its 777 and 787 making it less comfortable for the pax compared to A330 or A350. But that is a benefit for the airline.

Airbus had launched a big advertising campaign stressing the fact.
A350 cabin is wider than B787 cabin (5.6m compared to 5.4m), so it is natural to fit 9 abreast on A350 with a seat width of 18" compared to 17" on dreamliner which was initially marketed with a 8 abreast config in Y.

But the A350 is narrower than the 777 which still has a 9-abreast config on many airlines (SQ KE BA LY DL TG VN OZ UA CA CX JL, TK ...)

Indeed, the 777 cabin width is about 5.89m compared to 5.6 for A350
When first introduced in 1995, 777 had a 9-abreast recommended config. EK, AF, EY and AA started directly with the unpleasant 10-abreast. Several airlines start taking new deliveries in 10-abreast or retrofitting their existing ac. These include UA, QR, AC, BR,... Even CX is considering.
The 9-abreast 777 is clearly more comfy than the 9-abreast A350, but the 10-abreast 777 or 9-abreast 787 are worse.
But please note that the A350 already has orders for 10-abreast (air Asia, Air Caraibes) and there are 9-abreast A330 . Both very unpleasant.

No, AF and AA didn't start directly with 10-abreast.
AF 772s remained for a long time (10 years at least) with the 3-3-3 config. The first 77Ws they received were also in the 3-3-3 config.
AA 772s were delivered with the 2-5-2 config, while their 77Ws were directly delivered either the 10 abreast config

Correct.

eh, eh, my history of AF 777s is faulty. Thanks for correcting.
Actually, my memory is hit by old age. I now remember how AF aggressively promoted their new 10-abreast more-comfy seats as an enhancement. Some posters even sided with AF.

I wonder which major airline was the precursor in adopting the 10-abreast config on 777.

Not surprised by the lack of P seats.

It's going to be a long walk back from the W seats to the nearest lavs...

BA or EK?
BA configured some of their "Leisure" 772s with 10 abreast but passengers were so angry that BA switched back to 9 abreast on all of their 777s

You raise an interesting question. Increasing the density is a question of economics and timing.
Reducing the seat pitch (say from 34 as in the good old days) leads to complaints but may be less "visible" than adding a seat to a row of nine. Being among the first airline to do it can get a lot of flacks from customers. EK was kind of a new entrant with a business model based on low price in Y. BA was regarded as a top quality airline in all classes. First one (give or take one) to introduce solo flat bed in F and flat bed in J. Nowadays most pax in the know expect airlines to move to 10 abreast on 777 so it would attract less ill feeling from BA pax.
And their image in all classes is not what it used to be.
With the introduction of PE economics and competition probably call for a densification of Y.

First destination will be CAI on 10 January. On 7 and 8 January there also will be special welcoming flights. Sales for this start early December.

So that's why KL were forced to stop flying there :)

Are there some confirmed information already on which routes the B787 will be deployed in the following months? The fleet will grow over time and CAI is probably just a training destination (short rotations, gives more crews more takeoffs and landings).

Here is secretely hoping for ORD, which is a choice of horror right now. AA or dreaful UA or AF on an A332 with NEV....

SFO would be very nice as well, as it's between dreadful UA or AF on a NEV 777 except in the summer months...

UA Will operate 788s on the SFO-CDG flight

I believe ORD is indeed a serious candidate.

maybe in winter, but for the summer season, the 789 is clearly not enough capacity for AF to SFO.

Overall, I believe the current A343 routes are the best candidates for a replacement by the B789 (e.g. DTW, MSP, etc) because they are phased out. BOS would be a good candidate too now that the DL flight is operated year round. I think BOG and SXM will be the last A343 destinations.

The KL J seats in their 787 are different from the other New WBC for the stated reason of "commonality with AF" so that seems extremely likely.

I was hoping they were canceling all their 787 orders.

Agreed. For those of us who only gets to fly Y these 787s are a disaster :/

I don't like that AF/KL invested so heavily in the 777/787, seat width is horrible.

Now announced on routesonline. Horrible timing of the return flight :eek:
http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/...t-in-jan-2017/

Yep, but the arrival time to CDG makes it possible to connect to many European cities and arrive there before 9/10am

They have similar arrival timings out of TLV, few years ago they moved an afternoon flight to 1am.

Of course with a flat bad it is not as bad as with a 320...

Of course, i think as long as SFO gets BEST seats on a consistent basis (and an A380 in the summer) i would be satisfied.

As per an AF information just released, it seems that the 1st flight to CAI will be on Jan 9 (but I didn't check that doing a dummy booking). The 1st plane will be delivered on Dec 2. A 2nd plane will be delivered in April and will be used from May 1st on CDG-YUL (AF344/345) ^.
Also there will be a daily rotation CDG-LHR from Feb 6 to march 25 (except wednesdays). More info here about the LHR service.
http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/...t=Air%20France

Is there a precedent in how PE seats are attributed when a widebody is used on short/medium haul ?

No precedent as the A388, which was also used on some LHR runs at the beginning, had no W when they were put in service.
I am guessing that either W will remain empty, or they will give those seats to those who are booked in EcoFlex.

No info yet on the special welcome flights?

As it was said above, the 1st B789 just delivered will fly an almost daily rotation to LHR. La Tribune is reporting this morning that the 2nd one to be delivered in April could make a daily rotation to LYS between the arrival from- and the departure to YUL.
http://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-...gv-622146.html

It is good to see that AF has finally decided to use some of its longhaul ac more efficiently by adding some short runs between longhaul runs.

IMO, you are reading too much in this. You assume that this is a permanent pattern. It looks to me more like familiarisation (for the crew) and PR (for customers) flights, like they, and other airlines, did for the A380. I do not think that the traffic between LHR and CDG warrants a daily 787 rotation in the morning (or any other time of day, for that matter).

Isn't it also true that most airlines will avoid using their longhaul aircraft in this high-cycle manner? Takeoffs/landings and the consequent pressurisation/depressurisation takes its toll on aircraft.

Aircraft lifespan is usually measured in the number of (takeoff and landing) cycles. A shorthaul aircraft will therefore rack up cycles much faster than a longhaul aircraft. Except in some cases where there is massive demand on short routes - mostly in Asia - it rarely makes sense to put your biggest, most expensive aircraft on such a regime which prematurely "ages" it.

You are correct in theory, but it is now very common to see airlines introducing their new plane type in their fleet by having some short-haul flights done for crew familiarization/training. I think this trend became very visible with the A380 introduction. And this period is not lasting more than a couple of weeks/months.

It is clearly for familiarisation. But also a way to increase the use of the aircraft while they just have one or 2. Once they have more frames, they don't need that anymore, as the number of destinations served is increasing and so one particular plane is not spending too much time on the ground at CDG.

And yet, it works perfectly well in Asia!
I guess it is high time for AF to use their widebodies between 2 long haul flights!

First trip report
 

Already posted by Leadership...

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-f...g-787-9-a.html

Any more news on which routes will be flown with the 787? Still on Cairo?