San Gottardo

I seem to remember that they reduced the flight length above they serve hot meals in European business class from 2 1/2 hours to 2 hours. Is that already in place?

Just wondering why all OS flights between Paris and Vienna take slightly more than two hours, but the flights on AF last 1h55. And guess what? The Austrian flights are more often on time than the air France ones. So it looks as if they scheduled the flight just below two hours to save some money on food, and have a slightly less punctual operation.


Return flights with AF are just over the 2 hour mark as well though. With the prevailing winds being from the West, it would've been unreasonable to schedule two hours block time given that already in the other direction it is slightly ambitious.

Goldorak

I asked the same question to AF very recently ! The answer is : hot meals are served from 2:15 flight length.

San Gottardo

OK, thanks for the heads-up Goldorak!

Another snack flight I just boarded then (on one of the few Airbus planes that have the sharklets - looks fantastic)

Goldorak

Their cold food in medium-haul C is very good now. Here's the one I had last week. The printed menu is also a nice touch.

San Gottardo

Hmm, not what I got. And no menu. Actually I was rather disappointed. This was a flight at lunch time (13h10) and there was some not very good fishy and vegetarian thing on two separate plates, a piece of cheese, and two mini desserts. The desserts were really good. Although it remains a mystery to me why they keep the plastic lid on and serving the tray.

I am starting to get a hang of the European J product after the recent upgrade and I really welcome that it doesn't feel that cheap anymore. I am still not fan of what they do on the ground and especially in the lounges, although I must also say that they have really made huge progress in everything digital. But, on this particular route I think it's back to Austrian airlines, who always serve a hot meall, and the rest of their service isn't any worse.

Thanks for the information on the meal times, good to know for another time.

orbitmic

Why anyone would choose any other airline over OS or TK on European C is a complete mystery to me I must say!

Re-comments on cold food in European C, am I understanding correctly that you and Goldorak are talking of a very recent change (e.g last month)? My last flight in March was breakfast time and frankly not a single part of it was edible. AF breakfasts have always been ghastly but this actually looked and tasted outright poisonous. I'm very much hoping that this is another story now.

I would add that at the risk of sounding very iconoclast, the more I fly, the more I tend to prefer cold meals over hot ones. There are exceptions of course (JL, TK, OS, EY, or QR being among them), but most airlines do not do very well with hot dishes, while they often manage pretty good things in premium cold meals. I have come to the point where I frequently choose the cold main on long haul BA J for instance.

San Gottardo

Oh, I can de-mistify that It's actually quite simple: schedule. I fly when I have to. It is extremely rare for me to change my own schedule only to fly with an airline that I like better if the choice is between two bearable airlines. And so for instance, Air France has the first flight of the day from Paris to Vienna. If I have to/want to be in Vienna by 10.30am, then the 7.15am Air France is the best way to get there (found myself on Niki flight from CDG T3 as well once - no thanks, not again).

Obviously the schedule/quality evaluation is not always following the exactly same strict rules every time. Would I wait 3 hours to take Lufthansa on a France-Germany service only to avoid Air France? Usually not, although arranging things to avoid the A318 and the NEO seats is always a temptation. Would I get out of bed a little earlier to take Emirates instead of KLM from Europe to Dubai? Very likely yes. But there have been situations where I have found myself on a non-refurbished American Airlines 772 with their old F cabin instead of the much nicer Korean B77W, and I regretted it, but it didn't work out otherwise. I have even managed to go on a crappy American Airlines 763 although it would have been less expensive to fly the same route on Swiss.

Yes, things have changed, and for the better I must say. They had announced an upgrade already 2-3 years ago, but other than doing away with the horrible white plastic boxes and their prison food content things didn't really improve. It's been upgraded again now, and they scored full marks on presentation and decently on food, depending on time of day. It's all in that "new moyen courier seats" thread.

Is it great? No. Given a choice between AF and OS? Clearly OS (OS makes fun of all of those saying that certain flights are too short to serve hot food. Guess what, this morning again I had a hot breakfast with them on a flight with a block time of 1h20). Is AF European J worse than other major airlines? No longer. I did avoid AF European flights - especially in overpriced J - wherever I could for years and only ended up on them when schedules made it necessary. Now, while I see no reason to prefer them, I no longer see a reason to avoid them in J.

orbitmic

I was just teasing Schedule/convenience and price obviously trump any other reason except in the most extreme of cases (people who really don't look at big price difference - which I think is a difficult position to justify even on business travel, and those who are flying on a tight budget and will take even ridiculously inconvenient routings/airports to save a few euros).

The AF-OS codeshare operation incidentally changes both sides of the equation, negating price differences on many fares while increasing scheduling differences because they have adapted frequencies. On most key business routes, you would find early morning alternatives with different competitors but not here I guess.

I also agree with you that the balance changes depending on the flight type (as well as the stress of the commitments upon arrival). I'm not going to get out of my way to save 1 hour when I fly Europe-Australia if there is a vast difference in comfort. By contrast, I'm not going to get out of my way to get extra comfort (assuming such a thing exists) on NCE-ORY if it means taking a schedule which would be less convenient by one hour. Being able to sleep on long haul night flights really makes a difference to me for instance, while <2 hour quality onboard food and drink, while pleasurable, is not "essential" to me.

BTW, I did like my recent KL experiences, especially on the 744s (all retrofitted now). I do think that they have improved quite a bit of late and I would personally certainly choose them over EK J on less good planes (their A380s are of course very good but many of their other models have rather dated J IMHO).

QF serve eggs benedict on SYD-CBR, which is 40 minutes block time, and not so long ago, BA used to serve full English to the whole 767 cabin on LHR-EDI (1h10 block time)... CQFD.

cityflyer369

Does anybody know what the flight length is for KL?

splflyer

With KLM they work service wise with so called zones for both Economy and C Class;
A hot meal in C is offered on flights like over 2hrs
Flights include ; ARN/BCN/BLQ/BUD/FCO/HEL/MAD/NCE/TLS/WAW if not operated by KLC
On longer flints and extra pre dinner/lunch drink is offered Hot towels are offered on all flights offering hot meal service
all other flights will get a cold tray in C class, including Paris as no Premium is offered anymore, just 2 classes.
Nice to know ; KLM offers a hot meal in economy on flights to IST/SVO

criced

Anyone know what AF serves these days on flights longer then 2,5h in business class? For example AF1652 CDG-KBP (3,05h). Thanks

Romanianflyer

Have not taken any flights to KBP with AF, but I do often fly CDG-OTP which has the same flight time.

These trip reports below which I wrote on the individual flights would give you a good idea what to expect.

Breakfast flight:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30961544-post5.html

Lunchtime flight:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29995220-post74.html

Dinnertime flight:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31033181-post43.html

Bottom line: breakfast on Air France is not good (there were even AF economy breakfasts I preferred above what's served in J on OTP-CDG and vice versa!). That said, I do really like the food quality on lunch and dinnertime flights. Overall, AF has a very good soft product on intra-European flights this length. I would only rate Turkish and Aeroflot higher within Europe when it comes to food/drinks (and of course, hard product having proper business class seats)

criced

Thanks for helping me find your reports. As long there is enough champagne onboard Im fine 😄

johan rebel

Only because the competitors on these routes are far superior when it comes to F&B.

OTP also gets hot J meals, by the way.

Johan

Goldorak

I thought you could be interested by this information posted today by AF

English translation: