When do the 09 top program get announced??
 

Just wondering cause I think our status now goes until March if I am not mistaken

Last year it was Dec 14. Your current status will expire on Feb 28/09.

I think the 2009 program details should have been announced at the beginning of 2008. This would allow people to decide whether they want to post their miles on AP or other programs.

Now they don't announce the details until everybody has already committed to AP. They could strip as many important benefits from next year's program as they wish with little repercussion.

For example, they removed B and H fares from the eligible fares of SWU in the 2008 program. But if they announced that at the beginning of 2007, it would be fairer as some of the Es or SEs might opt to put their miles somewhere else.

Now all of us who have collected enough miles to be SE, E, or P in 2009 would be at the mercy of AP or AC to give us the same benefits as in 2008.:rolleyes:

IIRC, the only thing that was announced at the beginning of 2008 was the qualifying miles required in 2009. Details of the program (e.g. selection options) won't be announced until the end of the year.

In other words, earn your status first. Only then will we tell you what you've earned.

One thing you can probably be certain of is that if you look at this year's program, next year's will probably have fewer/lesser benefits.

The benefits are too slim now...
How much more fat can they cut?

It seems SWU are the main problem and the change was not warranted this year. In Dec, if it is the same bs with YMU fares on the SWU, over to UA I go.

It seems SWU are the main problem FOR YOU. For many of us, the only problem is we don't have enough of them.

Simon

It's not like everyone has announced their programs already and AC is the only who hasn't. If everyone had and AC hadn't, then you would have a case in point.

But right now, (I believe) no one has announced their programs yet (and many made changes, read chopping throughout the year, like abolishing minimums, etc.) so why get all worked up?

Over to UA you go and good luck because they may not be around at the end of next year.

Then again, the same could be said of AC.

Pick your poison.

(Oh, and enjoy the UA's crappier version of AC*E. I'm sure you will love it!)

Everyone complains about benefits and stuff, but in reality, we get to where we need to go. Whether we fly in seat 31, or seat 2. Our suitcases will get lost with or without the orange priority sticker. We'll still have a chance to sit down and relax before our flight if we're in a lounge or not, and we'll all get on the airplane before the door slams shut if we're the first ones called to board, or the last ones to board........

Having an Award system for when we fly is a Privelage not our right. :) Be happy with what you get, is what I say.

Before you all go saying "Then why are you doing a MR to get Elite?" That's a choice I'm making, not something the airline is forcing me to do, so I'm not gonna get mad if they change their reward system.

The point is that with no effective competition in this area, AC/Aeroplan have significantly degraded the benefits for frequent flyers every single year, for the past 8 years.

On the other hand, the closest comparable airlines (US carriers) primarily due to true competition, have tinkered with their programs, but generally have improved benefits for their most frequent flyers, and not spectacularly degraded benefits for less frequent flyers -- certainly not to the degree that AC/AP have implemented a policy of slash and burn.

My expectations are the AC will:

1. Further reduce the number of or eliminate altogether SSWUs
2. Reduce further I space on many flights/routes
3. Further reduce the number of SWUs in circulation by changing threshold ug certs to every 20,000 miles (at least until well past 100,000)
4. Reduce MLL benefits, possibly by implementing fees or further restrictions (i.e. no guests)
5. Reduce or eliminate renewal "bonus" miles
6. Implement further restrictions on the use of ug certificates (by changing eligible fares and/or ug windows)
7. Implementing further IKK restrictions (possibly by imposing the same restrictions on gifting IKK for NA flights)

While I don't think they will try to push all of these through (at least not all in a single year) this is at least a partial list of things they are considering. And of course they'll use the "times are tough" line to justify many of them.

One thing you'll have noticed about my list are that there are no improvements. They might try to spin some change or other as an improvement, but it will either be so insignificant as to be meaningless, or upon closer inspection will actually be a degradation of a benefit to the vast majority of AP members.

I'm told by a reliable source (i.e. absolutely infallible) that United Airlines will guaranteed be out of business by the end of 2004. And 2005. And 2006. And 2007. And 2008. And 2009.

Actually, some of us get where we need to go in "seat 2" or we don't go at all.

A key word is flyers.

In other words, getting on a plane and going somewhere.

Which in the case of the US carriers generally involves getting on a steaming heap of rotten tripe with wings.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Zorn, I think you'll hear that your last statement is "demonstrably false" :D

Disagree completely. While the focus of the FF program will always be on the mother carrier, every FF that is part of an alliance is effective competition as you can cross earn.

Well they said the same about AC.

But the point is that UA is in significantly worse condition than AC is in.

And there is massive consolidation going on in the industry. Even LH doesn't have that much confidence in UA. But I guess you don't remember that they bought a nice chunk of JetBlue.

I do not get worked up at all. But wrong is wrong, whether other airlines are also doing it or not.

Fly 100K miles and we'll give you an SE status. But when you get the SE status, I'll tell you what benefits we'll grant you.:rolleyes:

We're talking business/consumer relations here not human rights. It is neither a privilege nor a right, it is a contractual and promotional matter about earning customer loyalty. If enough people get mad, it fails; if enough people are happy or don't care, it succeeds.

While I would agree this is true for perhaps 90% of FFs, it is not if you are purely a domestic AC traveller. Then you're pretty much stuck. UA 1K isn't going to give you squat if you're just within Canada.

I just got an e-mail from United announcing "2009 program changes‏"... Interesting changes for sure.
So, Air Canada should be soon to follow.

I see your point in that airlines keep on saying they will make announcements on significant changes to their programs at the end of the "qualifying year" for next year.

But generally speaking, it's no different than any other loyalty program out there, such as Via Rail, hotels, car rental companies, Chapters, Air Miles, and even credit card companies. You participate in their loyalty program with the assumption of status quo and any changes in the future will hopefully not adversely affect you.

But regardless, you are always at their mercy regardless of loyalty program. So let's not over exaggerate this. It's just that for airlines, hotels, car rental companies, etc., you know of when changes will be made. For others, you don't know.

Let's post those changes here and people can make up their minds on how many many improvements have been made to UA's program.

I'll do the honours of posting the e-mail that I got.

---

The changes to the Mileage Plus program for 2009 will reward our premium customers with highly competitive benefits, while responding to increased demand for United's new international first- and business-class cabins.

Please keep reading for a brief overview of each program change, then visit united.com for FAQs and details.

Restoration of 500-mile minimum accrual for elite members

Our elite members are the cornerstone of the Mileage Plus program. To reward these members and allow them to requalify for their benefits more quickly, the 500-mile minimum accrual on United flights will be restored for elite members effective January 1, 2009.

This policy change will be applied retroactively to flights between July 1, 2008, and December 31, 2008. For elite members who flew United flights of less than 500 miles during that timeframe, all affected mileage balances and bonuses and earned upgrades will be adjusted by the end of the year to ensure that your elite status is correct for 2009. Please see united.com for full details.

Mileage awards

Mileage Plus continues to offer members more awards to popular destinations. In fact, through August members redeemed 12% more awards in 2008 than in 2007. Also, United continues its policy of no fuel surcharges on award tickets. However, changes will be made to award levels on January 1, 2009. Note that our most popular Saver and Standard awards within the continental United States will stay the same, but other routes and classes will change.
View revised Saver, Standard and partner award charts.

Upgrade awards

As United continues to introduce the new international first and business class, which include lie-flat seats and other enhancements, demand has increased. To ensure that the upgrades adequately reflect the value of a first- or business-class seat, we are generally reducing the mileage requirements and will be collecting a co-pay when miles are redeemed to upgrade an Economy ticket. This change will be effective for upgrade awards requested on or after July 1, 2009.

The co-pay amount will depend on the origin and destination cities, as well as the type of ticket purchased. If you upgrade from a higher fare class, your co-pay will be lower or even non-existent. Upgrade awards from Business to First will not require a co-pay.

And to ensure that all Mileage Plus members have a chance to experience the new international first and business class, beginning July 1, 2009, all paid international Economy-class tickets can be upgraded with miles and a co-pay. Currently, only select Economy classes can be upgraded internationally.

Please visit united.com for details about these changes, including helpful FAQs and examples.

Thank you for choosing United and Mileage Plus.

Sincerely,

Graham Atkinson
President, Mileage Plus

Oh, and the link: http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,52895,00.html.

So no fuel surcharges, but higher "reward levels" and the need to pay both cash and points for upgrade awards.

Airlines are starving for cash to stay in business. Pick your poison.

But you can collect points on UA/US/soon CO/BD/LH etc. and use them on AC domestic flights, etc., and that's the point.

And for those referring more broadly, then you have WS and Air Miles or Porter and VIPorter or Via and Via Preference. But don't start up with that crap of not having domestic competition. You also always have the choice of making your own FFP and just fly the cheapest always. Vote with your wallet and pick your poison.

Sometimes that's true, but with many programs they give you notice of changes in time to cash out if nothing else. For example, when Sears dropped their optimal cash-out rate, they sent a mailer.

And in fact BA gave almost a year's notice of changes to redemption rates, plenty of time to (a) book tickets, and (b) decide if we wanted to continue collecting with them.

=aw

Actually not close, I can't post any details for obvious reasons but I hope others don't get misled by your post that we are going to gut the program like you said above, because we don't have any plans to.

Well I made it pretty clear those were "my expectations."

In any case, are you saying that unlike the past 8 years where there have been significant cuts each and every year, that this year there will be no cuts?

A couple of "overlooked" details.

1. Unlike Air Canada which normally announces changes of this nature after they have already occurred and usually only after someone "discovers" them when they are denied the benefit, UA has chosen to announce the change 8 months in advance.

2. For upgrades, the number of points required is being reduced.

3. The requirement for a co-pay is eliminated for higher fares, and for J to F upgrades.

4. While AC claims not to have a co-pay, in effect they do. The difference is that with UA (and most other US carrier programs) is that you only need to "co-pay" if you actually get your upgrade. With AC you need to prepay the effective co-pay by purchasing a higher (sometimes much higher) fare, and then cross your finger and hope you can get upgrade space.

5. Other airlines offer miles/points upgrades, so that even if they do charge a co-pay, they are offering something that AC does not, while they still offer certificate/sticker upgrades, and in many cases offer unlimited, free, and sometimes from any fare upgrades to their most frequent fliers.

So there's time for you to cash as soon as AC announces the program. It's not like they say effective tomorrow the levels will skyrocket. It's just you would prefer to have more time to make your decision (I don't disagree but like I said, you're at their mercy).

I'm guessing that many Aeroplan members would be happy to pay extra points to eliminate fuels surcharges that often run to many hundreds of dollars.

And for many people, the extra points paid for a UA award pale in comparison to some of the absurd and usurios points charges AC makes with their Classic Plus awards.

No, don't put words in this mouth. He said that AC won't be making cuts à your expectations.

Eight months? Last time I checked the calendar, January 1 is less than two months away. But maybe I'm wrong and can't count.

And you're asked for a co-pay.

Yeah and how many people buy J fares so they can upgrade to F? Certainly not most pax. But whatever. I suppose that is a positive point.

Yeah and you don't play the UA lottery to get an upgrade on a T fare to upgrade to C? Right because UA is going to upgrade a T fare before they upgrade a B fare. :rolleyes:

Ok, so AC doesn't offer points upgrades. But for elites they have upgrades certs which if they did offer point upgrades, you would all be complaining that they are letting non-elites have access to seats that you believe is rightfully yours.

Go defend UA. I personally don't care because I'm not on anyone's side here. But I will suggest you go look on the UA board and see how many unhappy people there are. I haven't seen many good words (if any) about the program changes.

But to each their own. Pick your poison.

Really? Did you take a survey of non-FTers to draw that conclusion?

The co-pay program starts July 1/09, as was recently posted in this thread.

FWIW, AC did give back MLL guest privileges to Elites (I think that was taken away earlier?).

=aw

I don't think that was.

I smell a thread that's in danger of degenerating into another of the myriad of AC vs. UA threads we have on this board (paging YYZPrincess!).:)

Not the point levels though for non-revenue award tkts.

BTW, the details why you can't post are not obvious. If the details are known, why not make them available now?

If it's for "competitive reasons" than one can reasonably surmise that things will get worse instead of better, and that AC/AP are delaying the bad news as long as possible.

If the news is good (i.e. improvements in the program) then the competitive advantage would be to get the news out as soon as possible.

Finally, if the details aren't yet completely decided, then there's still time to "change the plans" and add in a few more cutbacks.