Porter sues Air Canada for $850M
I'm hoping a thread about AC being sued constitutes inclusion in this forum.
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/f...d1c8ba&k=76598 Toronto Island upstart Porter Airlines launched a lawsuit Friday to sever ties between Air Canada and its regional carrier Jazz Air LP, contending the current capacity purchase agreement violates Canadian competition laws. Porter is also seeking $850-million in damages. |
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/a.../26/c8728.html
HALIFAX, Oct. 26 /CNW/ - Jazz Air LP ("Jazz") maintains that the allegations issued in a news release today by Porter Airlines and its affiliates are completely without merit and will be vigorously contested in court. Jazz continues to seek fair and equal access at the Toronto City Centre Airport. Porter Airlines continues to launch unfounded allegations against Jazz in an effort to prevent competition at the Toronto City Centre Airport. The Toronto Port Authority is also precluding competition at the Toronto City Centre Airport by controlling commercial activity. This is not their role. This practice is unprecedented in Canada and poses a threat to the Canadian aviation industry. Jazz's business agreement with Air Canada is a standard industry practice between regional and mainline carriers in North America. Jazz operates flights on behalf of Air Canada. |
Very interesting. They could go on losing money for years if they win this one. Should be interesting to watch this one unfold.
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Originally Posted by stinger
(Post 8625269)
Very interesting. They could go on losing money for years if they win this one. Should be interesting to watch this one unfold.
You're a funny goose. Porter just made itself a laughing stock. By the way, will Carty sue American Airlines because it has the same arrangement with Eagle? Heck, he ought to know, as CFO he oversaw it for years. Will Porter sue Continental when it gets to Newark. CO operates the same deal with Continental Express? Totally and transparently frivolous. By the way, how does a supposedly profitable airline with four aircraft and a monopoly at its home base airport claim any damages from anybody. Even if it claimed that it should be compensated for every empty seat it ever had, it wouldn't be 5% of its claim. |
Originally Posted by tcook052
(Post 8624712)
I'm hoping a thread about AC being sued constitutes inclusion in this forum.
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/f...d1c8ba&k=76598 Toronto Island upstart Porter Airlines launched a lawsuit Friday to sever ties between Air Canada and its regional carrier Jazz Air LP, contending the current capacity purchase agreement violates Canadian competition laws. Porter is also seeking $850-million in damages. |
They must be really losing money. The agreement was in place when PORTER did up its business plan and investors prospectus, why not go to the competition bureau at that point? I suspect the boys smoked a few too many soggies the other night and one of the lawyers at the table committed his firm to this frivolous action. But then again, PORTER has made more money with suits or threats of suits (about the breached "contract" for the bridge) than flying airplanes. I see this has dropped JAZZ units another 8¢ today. Maybe PORTER intends to make money shorting JAZZ?!
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"In documents filed in the Ontario Superior Court of Justice Friday, Porter claims Air Canada and Jazz conspired to lessen competition in air travel Canada by entering into the agreement, which it alleges unfairly establishes airfare prices, dominance, avoids competition and impedes upon new competitors, including Porter, from entering the market."
Yup. That part is totally strange. But what of the following paragraph: "It also alleges that the agreement requires Canadian passengers to enter into an exclusive contract which offer discounts only if Air Canada and Jazz are assured of a substantial percentage of business system-wide."?????? Am I misreading or what the h**l is that? I don't remember ever entering into an exclusive contract with AC or anyone else for that matter... |
Originally Posted by respectable_man
(Post 8625801)
But what of the following paragraph:
"It also alleges that the agreement requires Canadian passengers to enter into an exclusive contract which offer discounts only if Air Canada and Jazz are assured of a substantial percentage of business system-wide."?????? Am I misreading or what the h**l is that? I don't remember ever entering into an exclusive contract with AC or anyone else for that matter... |
Originally Posted by robsawatsky
(Post 8625840)
What that is really referring to (as read in another on-line news article) is to CORPORATE transportation agreements with AC, that provide for discounts so long as AC/Jazz are given the vast majority of that companies bookings. Now, perhaps the exclusivity provisions of these sorts of deals are suspect, but they certainly could offer it as a volume only agreement without problems.
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Now when Porter finally goes belly-up (before the lawsuit is settled) all the big shot's at Porter have a scapegoat and can walk away without a scratch.
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Didn't Jetsgo sue Westjet just before they went bankrupt? Will history repeat itself?
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Originally Posted by stinger
(Post 8625269)
Very interesting. They could go on losing money for years if they win this one. Should be interesting to watch this one unfold.
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The only difference I see between circumstances now and when Porter was on the drawing board is the sell off of Jazz by ACE. But given that Porter alleges conspiracy to prevent them from entering the market, I guess they're not basing their case on that fact.
Seems dumb. They lose a lot of credibility as a serious entrant into the market in my eyes. |
Originally Posted by LeSabre74
(Post 8627119)
Anyone want to lay bets on how long it is before Carty parachutes out of this mess?
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Originally Posted by Shareholder
(Post 8627324)
Didn't he also sign onto an Hawaiian startup?
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=343509 |
Originally Posted by Shareholder
(Post 8627324)
I read in some of the clippings on VIRGIN AMERICA that Carty is on the board, possible Chair. Didn't he also sign onto an Hawaiian startup?
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Originally Posted by Tangoer
(Post 8626060)
Didn't Jetsgo sue Westjet just before they went bankrupt? Will history repeat itself?
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Originally Posted by LeSabre74
(Post 8627119)
But they won't. The flying rodent will be cooked sooner rather than later judging by this desperate suit. Anyone want to lay bets on how long it is before Carty parachutes out of this mess?
I will continue to fly them when it make's sense. As always though, I usually don't book more than a couple days in advance. ;) |
Porter claims to be profitable, which I will also take with a grain of salt.
This lawsuit is pretty outrageous in its claims. I doubt there will be any judge that will claim Air Canada is being monopolistic (in the relevant timeframe) on the routes Porter currently/can service. Waste of money on Porter's part. I would not be surprised if it were an exit strategy. |
Doesn't Porter fly a fleet of Q400's? If they are going bankrupt, at least they'll be able to sell those off at a premium to satisfy debtors claims.
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I apologise for my last comment. It was very unCanadian.
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Originally Posted by lavalyn
(Post 8645645)
Waste of money on Porter's part. I would not be surprised if it were an exit strategy.
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Originally Posted by YVR72
(Post 8645729)
Doesn't Porter fly a fleet of Q400's? If they are going bankrupt, at least they'll be able to sell those off at a premium to satisfy debtors claims.
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Originally Posted by stinger
(Post 8644622)
Didn't AC also sue someone while in bankruptcy? I believe the Jetsgo lawsuit came out of the AC one when AC found a bunch of Jetsgo material in the garbage as well.
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Originally Posted by YVR72
(Post 8645820)
Yes. Hadn't Harmony just announced this kind of deal when they went TU?
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Jazz CEO Slams Porter's Motives
Jazz CEO Slams Porter's Motives
Scott Deveau, Financial Post Published: Friday, November 09, 2007 The head of Jazz Air Income Fund lashed out at Porter Airlines yesterday, questioning the motives behind a recent counterclaim filed by the Toronto Island upstart accusing Air Canada and Jazz of colluding to fix prices through their capacity purchase agreement. Link to article: http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/f...3-a44ac14612b4 |
Originally Posted by PreferBulkhead
(Post 8701864)
Jazz CEO Slams Porter's Motives
Scott Deveau, Financial Post Published: Friday, November 09, 2007 The head of Jazz Air Income Fund lashed out at Porter Airlines yesterday, questioning the motives behind a recent counterclaim filed by the Toronto Island upstart accusing Air Canada and Jazz of colluding to fix prices through their capacity purchase agreement. Link to article: http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/f...3-a44ac14612b4 |
Originally Posted by imverge
(Post 8703839)
For an airline that claims the lawsuit is bogus they sure are acting defensive. :rolleyes:
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Well we all know AC cannot be trusted... they lied about the time line of completion of the XM project and we know the also like to change T&C of their flight passes and screw over their loyal customers what's to stop them from engaging in price-fixing? NOTHING.
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You know as well as anyone for the XM work that there are always issues that arise -- you refuse to acknowledge that - face it you just like to piss into AC's face... plain and simple. As for the flight passes - they did come around and recant and I think they were fair in what they did.
So why do you not get off your lets-dump-on-AC box and be realistic for a change rather than just pissing at everyone who tries to be a bit more level headed than you (and that is not hard!) ;) Am I an apologist - not hardly ... but I am realistic and not ready to simply jump and scream as you seem to be. :D :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by PreferBulkhead
(Post 8704215)
You know as well as anyone for the XM work that there are always issues that arise -- you refuse to acknowledge that
Originally Posted by PreferBulkhead
(Post 8704215)
As for the flight passes - they did come around and recant and I think they were fair in what they did.
Seems like that's what it takes for AC to act like an honest company. All the power to Porter with their lawsuit ^ |
Originally Posted by imverge
(Post 8703839)
For an airline that claims the lawsuit is bogus they sure are acting defensive. :rolleyes:
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Originally Posted by LeSabre74
(Post 8704276)
What sane business person wouldn't lash out at such a stupid lawsuit? Robert Delucional has made himself the laughingstock of the industry, launching a suit against a standard practice in aviation. The only surprising thing is that Carty would give the go-ahead, I guess he still smarting from losing Canadi>n to Milton. The only good thing that would come of this is that Porter would have to open its books to prove damages, and we'd all get to see those "profits" they keep claiming to make.
Why not let the "facts" speak for themselves? I mean after-all didn't Jazz...ummm I mean AC...ummm I mean Jazz Income Fund...:rolleyes: release a press on Oct. 26th? As for "standard practice" in aviation that's for the courts to decide. Either they own Jazz or they don't this Income Fund is a lot of smoke and mirrors. Plus this lawsuit will allow Porter to subpoena AC/Jazz records to see what's really going on. |
Originally Posted by imverge
(Post 8704357)
...As for "standard practice" in aviation that's for the courts to decide. Either they own Jazz or they don't this Income Fund is a lot of smoke and mirrors. Plus this lawsuit will allow Porter to subpoena AC/Jazz records to see what's really going on.
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Originally Posted by imverge
(Post 8704258)
There were "issues" like what 19 month's ago. Are you saying those issues are still relevant to the delays today?
And how is this any more "lying" than Porter claiming they are going to have this or that service launched by this or that date, and then not doing so? Why would AC screw over their "loyal" pax in the first place? The only reason they even offered to make good was because of a threat of a lawsuit. PLAIN & SIMPLE. All the power to Porter with their lawsuit ^ |
Originally Posted by Simon
(Post 8704434)
Uh, how about the planes were full during the busy summer season, and pulling one off the line to refurbish it would have cost significant revenue? :confused:
And how is this any more "lying" than Porter claiming they are going to have this or that service launched by this or that date, and then not doing so? Yup, they were very scared from a post on FlyerTalk, just like they have been about all the other legal threats levelled at them by people posting on IBBs. Yes, indeed. May they be as successful in their business as they are with their lawsuit. ;) Show me where Porter said they were going to have a service and didn't... Porter doesn't have the aircraft that's legit unlike AC's excuses. I mean for god sake they owned the company that did the XM on the planes... but they sold the base out west instead of keeping it going since they were so behind schedule. Again AC put profit ahead of "loyal" customers. Are you saying that the FT thread had nothing to do with AC back-peddling with their tail between their legs? HA! Don't under estimate yourself ;) Remember AC and WS just reported record high loads... seems like it's a good time to be in the airline biz? You don't think Porter is benefiting from the strong demand? |
How about some of the early TC and ACTS delays caused the timeline to be pushed back, which caused them to get to a point where they couldn't just pick up the slack over the last few months when those things were out of the way.
I think others have pointed out to you in the past about the announcements of when US service would start, for one thing, but just keep on cruising along accusing AC of "lying" :rolleyes: We won't know about Porter until he opens his books. JetsGo was doing fabulously as well, leasing new planes and launching new routes right up until they hit death's door. But they offer good service. So they must be stunningly profitable. See CP Air. Simon |
Originally Posted by LeSabre74
What sane business person wouldn't lash out at such a stupid lawsuit? Robert Delucional has made himself the laughingstock of the industry, launching a suit against a standard practice in aviation.
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Originally Posted by YOWkid
(Post 8707245)
Perhaps. But I am pretty sure that there are also many who are silently cheering him on.
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