disloyality program
 

so i recieved my statment with a 'deduckion' of 12,000 points. I called and they told me its from 2002 (more then three years ago) that they forgot to take some point os.

1) And i am supposedly going to take thier word on this?

2) and this is supposedly going to make me be loyal to air canada, when they nit pick (and i have no way of verifing this)

3) and there was a 15,000 ducduction in the same period... was this for the same flight?

does air canada understand what a loyality program is supposedly for. its NOT to make money directly but to differtiant them from the other airlines.

it makes me feel that they are trying to milk us fro every penny no matter what.

i was a supper elite but since this penny pinching started, i have started taking other airlines that seem to provide better service etc. An example one american airline allows rewards tickets to have only side of the trip booked and have the return book later. (so that if you are booking a popular flight you can call when the outbound is avaible and wait for the inbound to be put in the inventory and then book it then). never mind all the addtional charges thatAC charges that 'make rewards more flexible'

yea right...

but what does Air canada care. got to get those 12,000, or they would go bankrupt... but who cares about actual customer service

Hey galambo, welcome to the board!

I'm not sure if I agree with everything you say, but I must say I'm sorry to hear of the 12K taken out of your account out of nowhere! A real kick in the nuts I have to say.
If your account lays dormant for three years, it's wiped out. If they find a mistake made more than three years ago, then it's ok for them to fix it now. Yep, kick in the nuts.

1) Delta does allow open bookings of reward tickets. (allowing me to book the outbound flight and wait till the inbound is put into inventory to book that)

2) AC charges now for its 'flexability' 130 for puting the points back, the highest in the industry

3) No charge till now for booking rewards tickets over the phone by northwest, delta etc.

4) avenue reward tickets... yet other airlines have more space for rewards tickets with no addtional charges.

5) allowing you to bring a guest in the lounge without having to pay extra (not AC)

6) going back three years and claiming they did not take points off.

7) having to call three times on the same day to get tickets (first two agents said no way, while the third actual looked and gave me the seats)

8) etc. etc./


i don;t understand why you don't agree with what i have said.

Easy there, cowboy!
I said ... I didn't say that I disagreed with everything!

5) As AP Elite, you are definitely one free guest in the lounge. It's in fineprint! http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelin...ndex.html#r0s0
If you want to bring an extra guest beyond that of your free guest (and who is not a family member - spouse and/or children), then that's where you have to pay extra. Also consider UA... they charge all of their Mileage Plus members RCC access regardless of MP level (except for Global Service Members - not sure if the rules apply to them).

1) sorry... i get upset even when i think about AC

2) the guest is ONLY relatives... buissness partners need to pay admission or have a first class ticket

3) there are aways around that restriction, by using point to pay for access. And then you CAN bring in guests i beleive

That's ok :D We all do from time to time :D

Nope. Read this link: http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelin...ndex.html#r0s0
Aeroplan Elite members:

Elite members with a valid membership card and a same-day confirmed ticket on an Air Canada, Air Canada Jazz, Star Alliance or Air Canada Codeshare flight are entitled to access the Maple Leaf Lounge.

Guest Policy:
Immediate family: complimentary
1 complimentary guest
Guests, $10/per person before 11:00 a.m.
Guests, $20/per person after 11:00 a.m.

Perhaps you read this wrong... the line below "immediate family: complimentary" is not talking about immediate family anymore, but truly one free non-family guest. So if you are traveling with one business buddy, your spouse, and nine of your children, they can all get in for free with you, as an Elite (which shows that you are on your profile).

Care to post a link to where this is so?

They might be within their rights to take out the points but it sure is the incorrect thing to do from a customer service standpoint.

I do realize that there are likely very many situations similar to this that add up to considerable amounts of points for AE however could you imagine if any of our company's came back 3 years (heck even 3 months) after making a billing mistake and demand payment?

I have learned in business that if I make a mistake we honour it and move on. Upsetting your customers after the fact is no way to build loyalty.

I imagine that AE stands to loose a lot more than 12,000 miles from galambo in the future as he might opt to earn points from other airline partners which AE would have sold to say a hotel or car rental company who would then pass them on to him. 12k points is not a big deal in the big skeem of things especially if he is a status member and the potential of 10's or 100's of thousands lost points AC could have sold to companies who galambo deals with on his behalf. Heck 12k is only 24 hotel stays of 500 points each which is nothing for many of us. Now just think of the lost revenue of galambo held a AE earning credit card and he gets rid of that.

Short term thinking on AE's part imho

cattle - I agree.

If you took a flt on points and they didn't decuct it back then you figurted you got a bonus;now when they catch it and you've mentally banked those points again you get pissed at thre airline........I'm missing something here.

Admittedly they should have contacted the person and said the points were coming out for such and such a reason

What is a Global Service Member? I though UA's Mileage Plus only had 3 tiers (besides basic) - Premier, Premier Executive, and Premier Executive 1K.

There is a very, very, very special higher tier called Global Services, which accounts for a fraction of 1% of UA's highest revenue customers. They get higher priority than even 1K's in some situations, such as standby, etc. You ever board UA metal and hear the preboard announcement: "Now calling all Global Services members, Prem Exec, 1K, and Star Gold to board"..?

I'm sure some UA GS lurker (there seems to be very many non-AC/AP lurkers on this board!) can comment more on this...

UGS - United Global Services. A status which UA awards at its own discretion and which is based largely on spending, I believe.

Yep, a fraction of 1%.

UGS - hear that, acysb87? :D We need a ACGS just for you and taupo :D

What are the extra perks of the UA's Global Services Members, over and above those of Premier Executive IK? Do these members have their status for life?

You should search the UA forum, or wait for a UA lurker to post here, but here is something to start:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=437021
It talks about the special UGS check-in "room" at LAX! I guess this is kind of like a hotel check-in where status members can get their own little office to check-in, with places to sit and rest, etc.

That sounds pretty close to web check-in if you ask me ;)

heh heh :)

It was just a "sample" of what extra benefits are offered... I'm sure there are lots more but I think we need a UGS lurker or a UA forum search to hash these items out for FGII.

Here you go:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111089

I like the" very very very special high tier "part. :D

Revenue is a wonderful thing.Now I have the segments as well.If we ever get better mileage for the dollars paid for short commuter flights :rolleyes: .Lets see what I need to hit for the cycle!!! :eek:

Didn't Bell Canada do that when they instituted their "enhanced" billing system last year? :mad:

1) i don't know about you but i don't keep track on what i have done three years ago. And i should take thier work on it? given thier past history i wouldn't

2) Yea i goit a short letter and -12,000 points... thats it.

its about loyality, that is why they created AE and yet this is not give me any warm feeling. But if this was the only thing then maybe i would let it pass, but then again we have this addtional charges for 'fexibility' now it costs 130 to get points back... and what was it before? alot less. then there was a charge for calling in for an reward ticket 9of course you can go on the web, but until recently you could not book allinece rewards tickets. (delta, NW, etc do not have these charge.

yes i am upset and as someone else said.... they have made me open my eyes and see who else is out there. I now have stauts on delta, NW, cont. asnd all because of the actions of AC/AE. I estimate that they have lost at thousands of dollars of fares that i have instead booked on other airlines because of treatment like this.

and at the end they have instead of getting revenue fro these stupid charges have lost revenue instead. I beleive that is called shortightedness

:mad:

[QUOTE=galambo]1) I would bet that if you called them and asked they could tell you the xactflt and send you copies of your past statements to show points were not deducted. Again, I say, you thought you got away with it and rebanked those points and now are pissed at AC/AP..........I again miss the logic. :rolleyes:


Look around you my friend, all the other airlines are either losing money or charging for special services. Delta is a basket case and pretty soon the legacy carriers will be hitting the consumer with all sorts of charges either hidden or up front. BA now charges a booking fee;your travel agent also now charges you for their services,etc. If you switch loyalty program from AC because of this and then have to fly domestically you lose again.



Can you explain why AC's planes are more full than ever when they are, according to you, screwing the customer. You screwed yourself me thinks by being mad at something that was an eror in your favour since corrected. Childish behaviour IMHO. :rolleyes:

Look in the mirror pal for the real definition of shortsightedness ;)

[QUOTE=parnel]1) so you do keep track of what you did 3 years ago. congrats....you are a better person then me...get away with it....the fact remains that there is a ducdtion my statment FOR AROUND THAT PERIOD WITH A SHORT HAUL FLIGHT so i did ask for a complete list. and did investigate.



[QUOTE=parnel]2) the reaosn they are losing money is labour costs and fuel charges. Trying to make it back on the backs of its most loyal customers is very short sited. it drives those same custoimers to low cost alternatives (westjet,air trans etc.) and by the way two wrongs don't make it right... you seem to forget that this was a loyality program... i find it interesting that you and AC seem to have foprgotten that. NOTE and i am not your friend


[QUOTE=parnel]sure... look they are not that many alternatives? Jetsgo is gone and as a buissness person i need more then one flight out a day to a location for flexability. AC has a tight rein on many locations to say the least. As for childish behaviour... It seems that customer serivce is lost on AC. I remeber the days when we called in and the agnet try to fullfill a request. Sometimes they could not but at least they tried. Now adays the agents don't even bother.... I am GLAD that you like the new system where people are treated so... I don't. i beleive that a customer should be treated like you yourself would wanted to be treated. And in that way one can only benefit from increased customer loyality



AS FOR YOUR LAST RUDE REMARK I WILL NOT COMMENT FURTHER ON THAT.

[QUOTE=galambo][QUOTE=parnel]

Obviously with your short memory span you forgot you took two flts on points not one ;)



And most loyalty programs hve evolved and matured to become money makers for their owners. No doubt you are aware that ACE has floated Aeroplan into a public Company. West jet has not made money now for over two quarters,so what is their secret other than stealing AC confidential information. They stopped making money when their fraud was discovered.


How do you know how AC's service levels are evolving.......you don't fly with them anymore. So, unless you are currently experiencing the service levels you don't have the current experience to comment on the mostly good changes we have all seen in recent months

Please tell me what you pay for airfares now as opposed to five years ago and that will give you your answer. As airlines get used to the new industry economics the service levels will return. AC has filled lots of seats recently and are being very succesful. Again, I suggest you look in the mirror for some basic answers


Why not, everyone else does :D

actually the reason is more like the cost of fuel. if your thinking would be correct, the loses would have happened earlier as the discovery of the alleged fraud was alot older then 2 quarters as you claim. the fraud was discovered more then a year ago, in terms of AC investigating etc.


I am so glad that you like paying more for the 'same' service you had before. But then again as a SE you would be charged for itmes that us 'lower folk' do get charged with. Just be sure that you maintain your SE status, because its dirty down here. Oh by the way... you ...-u-me that i don't fly with AC anymore... Unfortantly at times there is no chiose.... if there was, then you would be correct.. I take it you have never flowen southwest airlines... where they agents really do provide service. And they are making money based on that SIMPLE equation that the customer is the main componenet in the equation.

you seem to make this personel. i have no idea why..... and this should not be in a discussion board like this.

But so be it... you can say whatever you want. I will no longer respond to your posts/attacks

I fail to see that suggesting one look in a mirror is a personal insult :rolleyes:

They said it was the fuel what else could they say....we defrauded AC and then lost money when they caught us. :rolleyes:


You obviously chose to ignore the facts that airfares are miniscule compared to what they were five years ago when Aeroplan was at its peak in freebies.

Remember WestJet could basically look into the future by tapping into Air Canada's system, it's not like the day they were caught that they lost all information. They had info on flights many months out, so this argument doesn't really hold up. Granted there are lots of factors that can cause an airline to lose money and probably have for WJ but the timing of everything kinda looks bad on WJ's part

true, that being said fuel and labour is the number one and two variable costs of operating an airline. WJ got caught, but load factors change in per second bases (note that wj is accused of accessing the information a couple of thousand times a DAY) so the info is out for 335 days, they change all the time.

I am not making any accuses, but simpling pointing out that

1) diging about three years after the fact, is not customer service (ever had any company invoice you three years after the fact, and you beleive them just because they said so?)

(I understood that there is at least one other person affected in the same way (talked to an AC agnet who said he had a call rfecently about the same thing).

REMEBER ITS ABOUT LOYALITY, or that is what AP is supposedly there to generate.

AC has the right do to anything they want, but they shouldn"t be surprized that others can then take advantage of these steps. You can not get customer satisfaction 100%, but it seems that satsifcation is not on the ten top list in terms of objectives. And why shouldn't i get peeved when they go back three years with a short, letter.

2) Is it a coincidence that they did this after JETSGO finally went belly up??? :confused:

as a final note.... i don't remeber what happened three years ago, some people here want to make it sound that i gleefully put one over on AC... rest assured that i pay for itmes that i use. If they are right, then i would have expect them to take the points off and right now i don't know if they didn't then. But when you want people to come back to you, and there is compitition out there (little as it is within canada), one would expect that this would not come out of the woodwork now.

I've heard that AE (and other FF programs as well) have been doing these audits and deducting points that were "improperly" credited. While it MIGHT make financial sense, it sure doesn't from a customer service perspective.

What I personally find galling is that I only have SIX MONTHS to fix an error on my statement if AE fails to post points correctly to my account or if I have to mail in receipts/stubs, etc. After six months, their attitude is too bad so sad. Conversely, they seem to give themselves an UNLIMITED time to fix their mistakes.
What's good for the goose should be good for the gander. I think they should limit these audits to six months unless their prepared ot give me unlimited time to send in requests for credit.

very good point ^

Well put. ^

I'm not sure what causes them to do this after two or three years but yes it does seem unfair but then again if we were all honest we would tell tehm when they didn't take enough points out of our accounts. We are all over them when our points don't post right away