YVR DO reports
 

As usual we had a great day with AC and learned lots more about the future. I will let others post their views and notes that were taken.

Agreed. I am glad I had a chance to voice many of my opinions, concerns, and gripes. It was nice to see the AC reps be candid with us. Kudos to parnel and everyone else involved. We were a very lucky bunch.
*Finally got to meet Empress* :D

Did everyone manage to take-off and/or land the SIM OK ? :D

More importantly... how was shore9 at the dinner? :D

I managed to take off and land safely, but my fellow flight crew were hampered by a malfuntion in the speed control....one go-around, and one 90 degree bank-and-land that was spectacular until we skidded off the end of the runway. :eek:

Who knew a A320 could fishtail? :D :D :D

Dinner will be at 19:00PDT. It is now 17:25PDT.
Ignore the post time as it's inaccurate.

Who was the intrepid secretary? Who from AC was involved?
What questions were asked? What was answered? When are the 763 starting to be refurbed?Where is Simon when we need him :D ? Enjoy dinner and the Beaver for those who are going.......

ACYSB87 and I took detailed notes. No time to post them now, but I'll take a crack at it possibly later tonight, latest tomorrow.

To answer your question, the 763's will be refurbished at a rate of one every 10-15 days beginning March 1, 2006 and completion by early 2007. They will be complete interior overhauls with brand-new leading edge "pod" style lie-flat seats in J and all new Y seating with in-seat power and IFE at every seat. They can't begin the retro-fit any sooner than March as the IFE system won't be certified until then.

No decision has been made on refreshing the domestic 767 fleet yet, although the expectation is that a decision on this will be made at a Board meeting next week. It has to do with finalizing plans for how long these aircraft will remain in the fleet.

Wow, you guys are fast. Parnel, a big ^ for organizing this.

I took copious notes (for my own interest, really) but here's some of the stuff I took down.

Most of the room were SE's, some E's and maybe 2 P's. There was a fairly large contingent from AC and AP including Ben Smith, Sandra Diem, Empress, Charlie McKee, John (forgot last name), Lucie Guillement, Marcel Forget, and others.

First topic was the flight pass. Questions circulated whether new iterations would be coming soon. The answer was that with AC's current technology, the pass system was maxed out. A contract with IBM would expand the platform within the next 4-5 months and new derivatives of the product would be out in October. Some possible products are family passes, small business, and large corps. All would offer flexibility in the user.

Question about whether Club (Supercomfort) Class would be on all long-haul routes and whether future AC planes would offer 3 class (E, E+, J) seating. The answer is that they are still testing the Club Class on the Europe routes but there's a strong likelihood Club Class would stay. AC answered the new 777/787 would probably have 3 classes but couldn't say exactly what they would be.

Question if e-ticketing would be expanded to all Star carriers. There is an intiative underway to interline all e-tickets. By 1Q 2006, all Star partners (with exception of SAA) should be e-ticket eligible. Whether all classes would be the same on e-tickets, they could try but it's probably not possible since other airlines control their own fare buckets.

Ac.com will be able to to show fare classes when booking for all international flights starting June 15. For NA flights, AC is pushing the fare product names as much as possible and felt they already offer a functionality of choosing your fare class. The question was raised of being able to choose the fare class you buy on int'l flights. (For example, ac.com is showing V but you want to buy H for $200 more.) The argument was that the customer wanted to pay more $$ but couldn't and would get charged through the customer call centre as a double whammy. AC seemed very interested in this and said they would investigate it.

Question about promo deals through AP such as getting discounts on Starwood. AP's focus group said the deals offered weren't that good anyways so last year was the first year they didn't go after offers. They wanted to go into offers again but would be more selective about it and wouldn't go ahead unless the offer was good. AC asked the group about what "offers" would interest us. The vast majority answered with Elite levels with hotels and the explanation given was that we would drive revenue towards a hotel if we held elite status, same as with AC/AP. For AP reward sales, they're basically dead. They were offered during the low seasons but new business models show there really aren't any low seasons any more.

Question about family AP accounts. Although we were told we could collect AP points on partners (which some of us raised our eyebrows), it didn't seem like you would be able to pool family accounts for rewards. However, they were bringing back the transfer ability, at the normal $0.02/mile.

AP is changing reward system to allow members to "buy" any seat available. Rules would be similar to rev tickets with yield management practices in place. The 8% classic reward availability would be protected but you could "buy" seats over and above that allocation.

Question about whether AC knew if Star was going to up reward redemption levels across the board. Answer from AP rep was that she wasn't involved in discussions but she didn't think so.

Instant KK is seen as expensive for AC but they'll be keeping it because it's an important feature of SE. It will continue but may evolve. How? Maybe reigning in the ability to give instant KK to "anyone".

Question about lifetime SE status. I didn't seem to hear an answer but I got the feeling it wasn't happening anytime soon. Another question about people who were SE and dropped to nothing. AC does allow people to explain their situation and a dedicated team at AP reviews all of them. About 800 exceptions were granted last year (across all tier groups).

Question about allowing rev-based tier levels. AP responded by saying they had taken some steps by reducing the number of segments required. They agreed the ultimate utopia would be a purely rev-based system but their own computer system is limiting. Perhaps in 3 years time, status will be completely revenue based. They brought up a scenario if someone was willing to dedicate their business to AC for next 6-12 months, one of the enticements may be to grant E or SE up front.

Elite will not be raised to 50K. They didn't feel doing that was beneficial for them. As for P being raised to 25K, the segment of ppl between 18K - 25K had about a 70% turnover every year. Because of the number of P's, AP couldn't give tangible benefits. They hope by reducing the number of P's, they can give better benefits.

Question about why raising tier qualification wasn't announced sooner? Tier design starts about June/July and is finalized around September. AP agreed they could/should have announced it earlier.

For buy-on-board, there was no way of recognizing status on a reward ticket. The issue was that ppl thought a reward ticket was equal to full Y. AC answered definitely by saying ppl on reward tickets do not get a free meal. However, they agreed status should be recognized (and printed) on a reward ticket and are going to look into that.

Refits: CRJ 705 will have 34" pitch and full J. The seats in the Emb will be wider than the A320. Some early Emb's will be retrofit with IFE and in-seat power (110V, normal plug) between Oct-Dec. Later Emb's will come fitted.

319/320/321 retrofit will start at the end of the year. There will be IFE and in-seat power. New seats for both Y and J. The entire fleet will be completed in early 2007.

767 - will have the 777 interior. ^ All 767's will be standardized to a single config and J will have horizontal (not angled) lie-flat seats. Retrofit starts Feb/06. Would be earlier but they are waiting for certification for the new IFE system. They are still deciding the vendor for the lie-flats but "it will be a leading product compared to any other carrier in the world". Both the 767's and 330/340's will be done by 2007.

777 - Y will have pitch between 31-34" and will definitely have an E+ type product (although they haven't decided the specs). They're working with Verizon and Bell to offer wireless internet. AC questioned the group about relaxing the cell phone rules and the group unanimously said that was a bad idea.

Question about aircraft grooming. All int'l flights have their blankets and pillow covers changed. When there is a quick turnaround, they basically just clean the washroom (1st level cleaning). When planes are left overnight, a more thorough (3rd level) cleaning is done.

Continued...

Part II.

Ac.com will have some expanded functionality to book non-code shared flights (next 4-8 months) but it won't be an expedia.

Question about integrated US Air skeds. Both carriers have legacy systems that don't talk to each other. They just finished a code-share agreement with US Air but don't have anti-trust ability as they do with UA.

Question about recognizing ppl with status for upgrades. Examples were brought up about unconventional upgrade rules deployed. AC's system (DCS) should properly show ppl who have status for gate agent. AC hopes to have rules-based automation in the future.

AC announced some possible new routes to Asia, US, Middle East, and Europe in the future. (I'm not posting them since I don't know if that's leaking their strategic plans.)

There's an evolution at AP and AC has engaged AP as consultants to manage their tier program. (Cards have evolved from saying AP Elite to AC Elite, for example.) AP recommends changes to AC but doesn't make the decisions. Tier benefits won't be lost with the transitioning in AP.

Lastly, it was brought up that it would be an excellent idea to have an AC lurker. There were some mixed results from the AC folk but looks like they may consider it.

I know I've left out stuff since I was gone from the room to take some calls. Also, I'm supposed to be in the office so I'd better get some work done before I head down to the FT DO dinner.

Excellent work Braindrain, thanks ^ ! Kudo's to all who went and took time out of their lives to make all of our travel experiences better in the future.

Thanks, BrainDrain!! Was there any discussion of the ratio between 773ER and 772LR, as well as 787-800 and 787-900 variants in the fleet?

You definitely drained the brain, Braindrain........great stuff and thanks! ^

Thanks BrainDrain - Great report with interseting tid bits... The whole Flight Pass interchangeability for users from a family or corp being limited by the IT platform !

Thanks for the time and notes!

Was any mention made of reinstating nonstops on SYD ?
(Preferably with a 772LR !!! :) ).

Many thanks for your efforts - am sure everyone appreciates the report.

Thanks Brain Drain for the excellent summary. It was alomost as good as being there.

DF

LOL :D I almost considered going just to see for myself! :D

thank the lords. I hope they get that up and running soon. This is a huge advantage for me and our organization that go between canada and japan.

^ :)

Hmm. I wonder how a completely revenue based elite system would work? How would they track expenditures on *A carriers, and if they don't (and I can't imagine how they could) then what would be the purpose of an alliance if you can only get "credit" for the revenue you spend on AC? For example, I do a substantial number of transcons in the states with UA and credit AC, but I do virtually all of my international flying with AC. If none of the UA portions counted toward elite status, even though many of them are paid C, then why give AC my international business? Why not stick with one. I'd happily fly AC across the US, but I can't, and there are many other places AC doesn't fly. Hence the notion of an alliance. I can't see how a *completely* revenue based model would work since my overall revenue is divided among at least three *A airlines (out of necessity) and thus might be under the bar for a revenue model but is substantial when totaled up.

Not that I remember.


I don't think so and it's not in my notes.

I was sitting at the other end of the table and only got to meet him very briefly near the end.

A lot of excellent info was shared. Sitting beside exAC was very insightful. Overall, an excellent ending to a very interesting day. The food was delicious and I enjoyed every bit of it.

Very tasty, but a little under-cooked.

:D

The issue AC (and AP) has with this now is their computer systems - they have no way to match revenue to individual aeroplan numbers. Going to a revenue-based tier model would mean updating their systems, and hopefully that update would include linking up with other *A carriers to capture similar data.

While it wasn't discussed specifically, I'm quite confident that AC understands that this would be an important part of a revenue-based tier model.

I concur - neither issue was discussed.

Here are my notes from the DO today on topics Braindrain hasn't already covered or where I captured additional info:

1. Bridging for RJ's in Edmonton.

A group was just commissioned to work on rolling this out - the first meeting is next Monday. One of the big issues is the Skycheck product - how will they collect bags from 70+ pax at the end of the bridge, get them down into the cargo bay, and do the process in reverse at the destination, and who will do all that work? All the appropraite adapters are in place, however. Bridging for RJ's is also coming to YYC and YWG.

2. The Pass Products

Braindrain's notes said the new passes would be out in October, but my notes say that "nothing new will be out before October", which is when, presumably, the IBM technology refresh project will be complete. A question was asked about passes from cities like Sudbury ("beyond markets", in Charlie's words), and Charlie replied that they know the demand is there, and that it will be looked at "at some point". They seemed to think a long-haul pass will be available in the next 6-12 months. They also talked about the "unlimited travel" pass they have been testing, where the holder gets unlimited travel on AC for a certain period of time. They "are committed to this product" as they feel it drives both loyalty and customer satisfaction

3. Aeroplan Partner Offers

Braindrain mentioned that we all agreed that instant tier status with hotel chains was the most valuable partner benefit they could offer. They told us they would try to add this back in for 2006.

4. Family Aeroplan Accounts

AC indicated that they are looking into doing this, but once again their technology doesn't allow it. It also presents some issues around things like Q-miles, status, etc. The window for looking at this is the next few years.

5. Revenue-based tier status

A most interesting discussion. What exactly was said was that AC would like to be completely "value" based in 3 years time (I wrote it down verbatim :D ). After some discussion, it was mentioned that granting SE status at $36 in annual revenue would NOT make financial sense to AC.

6. Status recognition on reward tickets

Ben said that he though they could get tier levels printed on reward ticket boarding passes. That surprised me, I didn't think they could, but I got the impression that was a take-away for them. Did I mis-read that, anyone?

7. Fleet

The RJ-705's start arriving May 27th. In addition to the specs Braindrain posted, the floors have also been lowered and there are 2 lavs. In AC's words, it will be "the most comfortable plane Bombardier has ever produced". The bar is pretty low there, but you got the feeling AC is pretty excited about these aircraft.

The Embreaer's start arriving August 1.

The 319/320/321 retrofit will be done at a rate of 1 plane every 5-6 days.

The new Boeing aircraft will come with Connection By Boeing wireless Internet access, tentatively priced at US$30/flight. Domestically, they are working with Verizon and Bell to develop a 'Net access product as mentioned by Braindrain.

We discussed during a break that the IFE's will not include a "Channel 9" feature to listen to ATC. The system is capable, but the pilots object. There is also an option to see the view from externally-mounted cameras (nose and belly) on your IFE - AC is still going through the option list on these aircraft, so I don't think a final decision is made, but the comment was made that "content" like this is very attractive to AC as it doesn't incur a licencing fee like movies do.

8. Aircraft Grooming

Although it wasn't explicitly said, I got the impression that AC is intentionally not doing anything more than cleaning the lavs in quick-turn situations. It would seem that they have decided it is more important to turn the aircraft in 25-30 minutes than it is to vacuum the cabin.

9. AC.com

Will probably be able to view a map of available seats prior to booking at AC.com (no time frame was given AFAIK).

10. MLL Food

The food being served in the YVR Domestic MLL is the new standard for lounges in Canada, and will be rolled out over the next few months.

more in part two...

continued from above...


11. Possible New Routes

A few jokes were made by the AC people about how fast the notes from the meeting would get onto FT, so I'm going to assume the possible new routes aren't confidential. If they are, PM me and I'll edit my post.

AC would like to serve Zurich year-round.
Have looked at YVR-MIA and a seasonal YVR-Paris but they are not economically viable.

YVR-Taipei is coming in 2007, as is one more YVR-??? route that I didn't get the name of....

They are planning to add new service from Western Canada to:

San Diego
Sacramento
San Jose
Phoenix
Las Vegas
Dallas
Burbank

They can't serve Long Beach as it is slot-controlled, and they will not be serving John Wayne.

As soon as they can get government approvals, they will operate YUL-Beirut.

They woould like to serve the following cities from YYZ in 2007 and beyond:

Dubai
Tehran
Karachi
Bombay

The old RJ's will also be coming off the Texas routes soon.

12. Fast Track Status

In place at YVR now, and in place during peak hours at YUL although not as seamless as they would like. They want it at YYX badly, but the GTAA doesn't want to give it to them.

13. Evolution of Aeroplan

I thought I would expand on Brandrain's comments. AC has hired Aeroplan to administer the program as well as to "consult" and "make reccommendations" about appropriate tier levels, benefits, etc. but the final decision is up to AC. "That relationship will always continue" <--- AC's words. These decisions are made based on the knowledge that tier members are AC's best customers. A concerted effort is being associate tier status with Air Canada, as opposed to Aeroplan (hence the tier names changing from "Aeroplan Prestige/Elite/SE to Air Canada Prestige/Elite/SE), and I got the feeling that AC understands that they need to provide their tier customers with a frequent flyer program as opposed to a frequent shopper program.

14. Priority Baggage Handling

John agreed that it is an issue, although at certain stations (such as YVR trans-border) it is getting better and at certain stations it is very good (YVR International). The problem is that priority bags are often not loaded per procedures, particularly at stations where the ground crew are not AC employees. A new system is being rolled out that allows them to track the exact location of each bag in the hold, and thss make sure the priority bags are unloaded first - John feels this will make things significantly better.

15. Carry-On Baggage

Ben asked the group what we thought about the carry-on baggage allowance. We had general agreement that the existing allowance and rules were fine, they just need to be better enforced.

16. Other

One additional note: it was mentioned that agents in the Aeroplan call centres get 9 weeks of training.

17. Impressions

These are not actual notes, rather a couple of impressions I had during the event.

a) Air Canada has some very smart, very thoughtful people working for them in positions of influence.

b) There were several issues we raised (such as cabin grooming and processing of upgrades at the gate) where AC's answer was "we have the systems in place to fix this", or "we have policies that keep that from happening". My impression was that the real truth is that AC knows about the problems and has put policies in place to fix them, but they can't force their unionized employees to follow the proper procedures. Obviously AC can't say that, but my guess is that the problem lies there.

All in all, an excellent day. Thanks to the AC people who attended - your willingness to listen to us is gratifying. Thanks also to Parnel for all the effort he went to organizing the event. To my fellow FT'ers, it was great meeting you and putting so many faces to names.

The Question I Wished I Asked....
 

Attn AC Lurkers:

I wish I had a dollar for all the times a question was answered with some variation of "Our systems won't allow us to do that".

What is the plan and the timeline to get off the legacy systems and into a system that lets you do all the things you want to do?

Fantastic summary Lee, thanks so much. ^ ^

great dinner, really good to put some names to faces and meet a group of people who love flying more than I do. ^

Thanks for the detailed reviews!

AC seems to have some terrific ideas coming out which is encouraging.

I'm still trying to figure out whether the info about their call centre agents having 9 months of training amounts to an admission. :confused:

For some reason, I always assumed that AC had an YVR-TPE route. Consequently, I was surprised to find out, that in fact, they do not and are only starting the service in 2007.

Western Canada (hopefully YVR) - Burbank sounds great to me. I would love to be able to fly into Los Angeles without having to go through LAX. ^

Once again, thanks for taking notes for the rest of us.

Thanks for the summary. This caught my eye. Does this mean that instant KK (for increased point levels) will be available to all members? Were there any more details? - will it cover the front and back cabin? will the points required depend on the fare buckets left available(I can't imagine how complicated that would be) when is it going to happen?
Thanks, TB

Thanks for the reports. Very informative.

I am somewhat surprised that Elite will remain at 35K...but who am I to complain... :D

Well done organizers. ^

AS couldn't fly YVR-SNA because there's no US Customs facility at SNA (recall that they announced it, they withdrew). I assume LGB would be the same, even if slots were available. Though I haven't looked it up.

=aw

CP served YVR-TPE as CP17/18 if I remember correctly.

AC currently codeshares with BR on this route.

Which begs the question: WHY? At the YYZ DO, we were left with the impression that this was coming to YYZ. Parnel, need to get that GTAA DO going.

Simon

That doesn't sound logical, as there is US preclearance at YVR and reentry is through Canada Immigration/Customs, so one never passes a US INS agent when leaving that country by air. At ORD, LAX, EWR, DCA, IAD and LGA, among other terminals, AC operates from normal US domestic gates, and US carriers depart their overseas flights from similar gates at their gateway airports. So cannot understand the issue with "Customs facility" at the smaller US airports.


Of course, given all the negative reports we've had about UA servicing AC at many American airports, do you really want them handling AC ground services at Burbank or elsewhere? AC's LAX facility isn't all that bad, as long as you don't have to fly when NW has a large wave of flights departing that backs up the security lines...

BTW, AC used to fly YVR-TPE but dropped the route when the country's high tech economy melted down [with the rest of the world's] in 2000/1. It continues to codeshare until traffic picks up and new aircraft are available to service the route economically.

Thanks to our correspondents for their notes on the AC Q&A session. Sounds as if there was still a "b*tch*ng session" in spite of the controls that were attempted.

By "Fast Track Status" assume this means access to airport Security Lines dedicated to Business/FirstClass and Elite travellers?

Undoubtedly what AS thought too. ;)

But (for example) what about cargo? The guys at PFI only clear what passengers are carrying. I can imagine there might be other things too.

In any case, AS announced YVR-SNA, then cancelled for that reason. I guess a search on the FT archives would bring up the story.

=aw

[QUOTE=Lee A Carney]We discussed during a break that the IFE's will not include a "Channel 9" feature to listen to ATC. The system is capable, but the pilots object. /QUOTE]


Why would the pilots object to a channel 9 feature?

On UA, it is always captain's discretion to turn this feature on.

If there is an AC pilot lurking, could you please explain the reticence?

I find this feature quite entertaining. In fact, a few days ago spent fascinating time listening to our UA 777 and ATC inbound from LHR to ORD. It is a great feature. :)

Correct.