Problems with AE and IKK
 

Hello All-
I'm at a lost here.
I am trying to book to priority rewards from YEG-YYZ on July 21 on AC 174 at 1800. There is lots of space in Y and this is confirmed by AE.
However AE tells me that AC has not "released" these seats to AC. I called and hung up x 2 but to no avail.
Talked to a manager - and she says she can't do anything - AE has no means to contact with AC. She did say she would send a message to IT but there will be no follow uo and we are SOL.

I know for a fact this is not the case. SE IKK allows for access to any economy seat on AC as long as the flight is not oversold (which I have confirmed this is not)

Thoughts? Any idea how to rectify?

I don't think it's correct that there is lots of space in Y. Sounds like it's overbooked.

Currently showing Y9, so it certainly doesn't seem overbooked.

Definately not oversold - I checked with AC and AE

I don't know why you think Y9 means it's not overbooked. If it's possible to be over by 30 (it is), it's possible to be overbooked at Y9.

That flight does not have positive space.

Do you know that for a fact? Both AE and AC have told me the contrary...

Hopefully someone with actual load info can chime in to confirm if oversold or not. It would be disturbing to see this benefit also being reduced.

canadiancow already has. It doesn't have positive space, i.e. IKK should not be available, and it's not.

Yes. Especially considering the front cabin isn't zeros.

Canadian cow can you confirm this?

The cow has good info.

You want canadiancow to confirm what he already posted?

I'm guessing that is somehow ambiguous...

The requirement for IKK is not "it isn't overbooked", but that it has positive space.

200/200 isn't overbooked, but IKK is not available, because it's full.

199/200 has positive space, and therefore has IKK.

How does Cow know factually that it is overbooked?

Just to be clear, I never said it was overbooked.

​​​​​​

Had does Cow know "Factually" if positive space exists ?

Kill me now.
What [MENTION=599574]canadiancow[/MENTION] said. And What [MENTION=759220]Adam Smith[/MENTION] said what cow said.

Some things are best left unsaid. He has provided very accurate information for similar things in other threads in the past.

He has udder ways to find information.

The bigger question is, if there's J space why are you even bothering with IKK? ;-)

update from AC
 

So here is the response from the AC concierge...Either there is a drastic change to IKK that has not be communicated or there is some mis-information.

​​​​​​Hello / Bonjour XXXXX


We have confirmed with our Aeroplan lead and in fact the capacity control applies to the entire flight in economy and for the signature class regardless of one's status (we have specified to the lead that this was for a SE member). The flight is currently not oversold in Y however this booking needs to be processed through Aeroplan.

Is there positive space?

Just book a J seat without even needing IKK.

That is really not the point...there is a big issue here. I should be able to get these seats and there is alot of misinformation here.

Without wanting to spend time right now looking things up, I think AC introduced "capacity controls" to "Signature Service" flights within North America in the last year or two.

I agree it is rather disturbing if that now also applies to Y on flights with Signature J service. It should not given the verbiage that AC publishes about priority rewards.

https://altitude.aircanada.com/status/priority-rewards

This is an A321 not a lie flat signature class flight!

I agree.

There are two separate terms which people seem to be confusing - "oversold" and "positive space". Those things are different.

At the risk of getting these definitions wrong....

Oversold means that AC will no longer sell any seats on the plane. Everyone seems to agree that the flight in question is *not* oversold.

"Positive space" means that they have sold fewer economy seats than they have on the plane.

The difference is that they can predict (with surprising accuracy) how many people will show up for a flight (taking into account missed connections, flat tires, people asking up ill, etc).

They can also​​​ predict (with surprising accuracy) how many people they can accommodate on a flight (taking into account the fact that they may have unsold J and PY seats).

If the number of people who they predict will show up, is more than the number of people they predict they can accommodate ... then they won't sell any more seats for it. That flight is now "oversold".

​​​​​​​If, however, they have sold 201 Y tickets for a plane that has 200 Y seats - but there are also 7 open J seats, and they predict they will get 4 no-shows ... then they believe they can accommodate everyone still - in fact, they will continue to sell more tickets. That plane is *not* oversold. However, because they sold more tickets than Y seats (in this example, 200 ticket), it does not have "positive space"

​​​​​​​A plane needs to have positive space for them to offer IKK to it. My example above is not oversold, but does not have positive space, and so you would not be able to IKK it.

It means that you're asking a plumber how to change a light switch.

I can't tell you how many games of broken telephone I've played with AC agents when I start in the wrong place. You ask the concierge X. The concierge asks their lead Y. The lead asks a knowledgeable person Z, who could have answered X, but was never given the opportunity to answer X. The answer, A, then gets passed back as B, then as C to the passenger.

In the end, you have a broken answer to a question you never asked.

That's certainly not true. Oversold means that it's booked beyond capacity. You can't get to +2 without selling seats when it's already oversold.

The IKK perk is very clear. You have access to any unsold seat in Y, and additional seats in J. Though I'm still perplexed they don't even mention PY.

I'm just going to revert back to my typical answer here. The best way to tell if a flight has positive space both in Y and overall (I believe Y3 J-3 would not have IKK) is to check Aeroplan. If you can IKK it, there's positive space. If not, there isn't.

K9 does not mean it's not oversold.

I agree with you - except that the answer from the concierge contradicted that. What is crazy is the SE Concierge service doesnt know the rules.

BTW this is the latest from the concierge team - basically saying there are seats but its Aeroplan issue:


We have reached out to all our contacts regarding this matter and unfortunately they have advised us that it cannot be done on our side.




The flight currently has open seats in economy, however we will not be able to make your priority rewards reservation for you. You will have to contact Aeroplan directly.





We apologize that we cannot assist you further with this matter.




Regards,






I

Yes. The concierge probably sees Y9.

Again, you're asking a plumber to rewire your house.

Just as an update to close this thread.

I got a phone call from AC customer relations today.
They did a complete investigation into this. Here is what they found:

1. There was positive space on this flight. Seats were available to be booked using IKK. It was an IT issue with flights being loaded from AC to AE/
2. They went back to the conversations. They admitted I was given the wrong info by both the AC concierge and AE agents. They have contacted the concierge to help correct their understanding.
3. She apologized and offered to make the booking for me.
4. They offered me a gift card

Here's a new one.

AC 847 MUC-YYZ Sunday March 15: J9 C9 D9 Z9 P9 R9 O9 E9 N9 Y9 B9 M9 U9 H9 Q9 V9 W9 S9 T9 L9 K9

There is no regular J/PY/Y space. There is Y IKK. There is no J/PY IKK.